Podcast Transcriptions

#27: Bloom Where You’re Planted

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for joining the GodWorx podcast, where marketplace multipliers are ordinary people with extraordinary influence. My name is Carrie Whitcher, and I am privileged to lead the National GodWorx Strategy Team. GodWorx to equip all Christians to integrate their faith and influence their marketplace by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are!

Earl McJett:
Hi, and thank you for joining us today. I am your host, Earl McJett of GodWorx, and today, we have the distinct privilege of speaking with Sally Hollenbach, Director of The Ohio Theatre and the creator and founder of Arts Alive. Hi, Sally!

Sally Hollenbach:
Hi Earl. So great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Earl McJett:
Well, thank you so very much for joining us today. Can you tell us a little about yourself?

Sally Hollenbach:
Sure. So I am from Ohio, and I when I was growing up, I was very into the arts. I loved to sing and perform and do all sorts of stuff like that. And then when I went to college, I was a voice major with theory and composition, but I also knew that what I I really, really wanted to be able to do was to sing for the Lord. I know this is going to date me, but back when Amy Grant was, you know, big into Christian music, when I was in junior high / high school, I was like, “That’s what I want to do!” And so actually, for many years, that IS what I did! My husband and I met in a singing group that was a song and dance group that traveled all across the country singing in all the veterans hospitals and churches and schools. And then we got married, and we had a traveling music ministry for many, many years. We kind of shifted out of that when we had kids, ‘cuz kids go to school, and, you know, all of those kind of things. And, then at that point in time, I was working in our church. I was the worship leader, and I was doing all of the programming for the services and the website and all of the techy end of things. And that’s when God very distinctly said, “New chapter”, and opened the door for me to just do this theater job that I thought, “Uhhh, okay”. But you know, it was exactly what I needed, and didn’t know that I needed it. And I can look back and see how God was preparing me all the way through with all of the different things that I’ve done in my life… all the performing that I’ve had, I even ran a business for a while, and so all of the things that I did in that business, and the leadership training that I had there, I need that for what I’m doing in my job now as The Ohio Theatre director.

I also began a program that’s called Arts Alive, and that, I actually began that 13 years ago. It is a program for kids where they come in and we have five different drama camps that happen during the summer, and then two art camps, and a couple of the camps, the kids actually write a musical, and then we perform it at the end of the six week camp. So here I am, running this historic theater, The Ohio Theatre in Loudounville, Ohio, and I love being able to do what I do! I’m very passionate about what I do, and being able to provide good, quality entertainment for people, and be able to have different opportunities for kids and adults alike, to be able to learn and to have performing opportunities. It’s just really neat to see what God has done through it. So that’s kind of the quick version.

Earl McJett:
Wow! Well, that is so exciting to see how God takes all of our life experiences and career experiences and all of that, and ties it together so that when life changes, like you had children, and probably life on the road wouldn’t have been as optimal for raising the children. God used the experience you had to move you into this new phase of life.

Sally Hollenbach:
Right, right? It really is interesting. When I look back, you know, there’s so many times I think that we can look back over our lives… Maybe we’re going through something and we don’t understand what it’s for. Or even, you know, I remember thinking at different times, “Ugh! God, really, why do you have me here? I don’t want to be doing this!” And now, looking back, I can see, “Oh, I needed to learn A, B and C in what I was doing before, so that I have that for now, because that’s exactly what I needed for now. And it’s neat how God… I always say that God never wastes anything, you know, The Good, the bad and the ugly in our lives, He uses it all. He doesn’t waste a thing. And so I just think it’s really cool how all of it, ultimately, if we allow it, turns around for His glory, which is just so awesome!

Earl McJett:
That is awesome. So how does this role here at The Ohio Theatre fit into the overall purpose for your life that the Lord has placed on your heart?

Sally Hollenbach:
So, many years ago, I did some some leadership training, and one of the things that we had to do was create a vision statement for our lives, of who we are. And it took a while to actually put it into words. And it was through a lot of prayer and kind of, you know, I’d say blood, sweat and tears, that I was able to come up with this. And so, the vision statement that I have for my life is: “I am an ambassador of hope, an explorer of unrealized potential and a warrior against mediocrity, all for the glory of God.” That is who God has created me to be, and in my role at the theater, I’m able to do all those things to bring hope to people in so many different ways. It’s really amazing, you know, the people that walk inside the door that you never know what somebody is going through. And somebody can come in and and sit in with a bunch of people, whether it’s a show, whether it’s a movie, whether it’s whatever, and be able to come in and laugh with people, and cry with people, just feel like you’re not alone. It’s amazing how much hope that can bring to people. And then the conversations that you get in from that is just amazing!

The explorer of unrealized potential… I love being able to help draw things out of people, especially kids, that they don’t realize is in there. It’s the program that I have, the Arts Alive program. It’s been so fun! I’ve been doing that for 13 years now, and it is so fun to watch a child come in who’s so scared maybe they can just barely whisper their name, but yet then be able to help really draw out the potential that’s in them, and work with them, and encourage them, and help them, and build into them. And then to see them a couple years later, a few years down the road, standing on stage, being the lead role in a show. And I just sit there with tears in my eyes because remembering back when that child could just barely whisper their name, you know, so really helping to get that unrealized potential. That’s just part of who I am. That’s who God has created me to be.

And then the warrior against mediocrity. This one is one of those, like, double edged swords for me, because I have a level of excellence that I try to just continually press the bar and lift the bar higher and higher and higher, and really help… I expect a lot of myself, and I also keep the bar very high because I encourage others to be more than what they thought they could be. And, you know, in doing that, it’s amazing how all of that brings glory to God. So hopefully that answers that question.

Earl McJett:
It certainly does. In fact, here at GodWorx, we love to see the unique ways that marketplace multipliers use the gifts and talents given to them by the Lord to reach goals that are not just really personal – A lot of people’s life goals are personal – but marketplace multipliers such as yourself, use your goals in order to bring glory to God through the community. So how do you see your work at The Ohio Theatre and with Arts Alive, allowing you the opportunity to share your faith with others in your community, and fulfill the Great Commission in others well.

Sally Hollenbach:
So what I do at the theater and what I do with the kids, I like to call it, “backdoor evangelism” in a way. You know, it’s not like it’s a blatant, in your face kind of thing. But it’s a who I am and who God has created me to be kind of thing. I heard one time a long time ago, “Preach the gospel at all times, and if all else fails, use words.” And you know, so much of just walking out who we are and who God created us to be, and then the conversations that you end up getting in because of that, it’s just amazing to me the doors that God opens and the conversations that I’m able to have with people there at the theater. I mean, I worked in the church world for many, many years. You know, it was like 20 years that I was in that world, and I remember when God kind of took me out of that, really feeling like a fish out of water in a lot of ways, because I thought, “Okay, now what?”
And when he said, “New chapter” and turned the page, and then opened up the door for me at the theater, I’ll be super honest with you… At first, I had to kind of relearn how to relate with people in a real kind of way, in real life, and not just in the walls of the church. You know, I had to kind of rethink the, I’ll say, “Christian-ese”, that we can easily get into when we’re in the walls of the church. And God really challenged me in a lot of ways in that area when I first, you know, stepped into this new role. And so it’s just been neat. I have grown so much through it, and I really hope and pray that it has made an impact on not only the lives that I get to be a part of directly pouring into, but also to the community as a whole, you know, because there is a ripple effect.You can feel that ripple effect, and it’s just really cool to see and to be a part of in some small way.

Earl McJett:
Wow, that really is! And you were talking about the “Christian-ese”. It reminds me of the fact that when you go into various different communities, whether it’s a region of the country or a different profession and all that, there’s a different language, you know, I work in IT, in the federal government, in the mid-Atlantic area, right? So there’s really specific kind of language in order to connect with people in a genuine way. And I would imagine, certainly in the arts and in theater, that there is kind of language that’s unique to that community.

Sally Hollenbach:
Absolutely! The arts are, you know, it’s a world unto itself in so many ways. And one thing that is so neat, though, is that we really try… I try so hard to just accept people wherever they are when they come in the door, especially the kids that come in, and just love on them right where they’re at. And just recently, I had the opportunity to talk with one of the students that I’ve had for many years. When she first started in my program, she was in 1st grade, and now she is a sophomore in high school. They just did a show at our theater this past weekend, and I had the opportunity to interview her for a radio show that I do and one of the questions that I asked her was, “How has being a part of the theater impacted your life?” And she kind of started to tear up, and she said, “This is my happy place, and this is where I can come and be myself.”, Which you know, for a kid who’s 16, who feels like you don’t fit in anywhere, to be able to have a place where you can feel loved and like you can totally be yourself. I just thought that was the most beautiful thing. And I loved that! That just meant so much for me to hear her say that. Because, you know, it’s been fun to watch her grow and to see her really grow in talent and in, you know, in stature and everything. It’s just, it’s just been really cool.

Earl McJett:
Wow! As we read the gospels, that was the same kind of thing… That freedom to be yourself was kind of what drew people to Jesus,

Sally Hollenbach:
Absolutely!

Earl McJett:
So that is a powerful thing, and we’re to be like him in that way. And it’s beautiful that you do that for the people that you come in contact with through this.

Sally Hollenbach:
Well, so often I think it’s easy to look at people and we have these quick judgments of, “Oh, they don’t look like me”, or “Oh, they don’t sound like me”, or “Oh I don’t understand this, or I don’t understand that”, and God has really been working on my heart for awhile now, about just really loving people where they’re at, no matter what they look like, no matter what they sound like, no matter any of it. The good, the bad and the ugly, because, let’s face it, we all have good, bad and ugly in our lives. And praise God that people have loved us along the way, and that God loves us each and every day. You know, I mean, where else would we be if, if we didn’t have Jesus, you know, to be able to love us right where we are!

Earl McJett:
Absolutely!

Sally Hollenbach:
I’m trying to do that, which is, you know, a work in progress for all of us, but it’s a really neat opportunity to be able to do that in the theater. And I feel incredibly blessed to be able to do the things that I get to do. And it’s a lot of fun. It’s so much fun at the same time,

Earl McJett:
Absolutely! Well, one last question. So what impacts do you look forward to making through this marketplace multipliers mindset that you have in these areas, working at theater and Arts Alive.

Sally Hollenbach:
Well, the impact… I mean, obviously, on a greater scale, I pray that God uses it in whatever way he sees fit. And I think the impact, honestly, we’re probably not going to even know the impact that we make this side of heaven. I mean, we won’t know, you know, like what I said before… Preach the gospel at all times, and when all else fails, use words… Just bloom where you’re planted! That kind of impact, obviously I pray that God is using me in whatever way that he can, and the ripple effect of that, I mean, that ultimately pouring into others and having in turn them pouring into somebody else, and then pouring into somebody else, and pouring into somebody else. And the… I can’t think of any other word but ripple effect of that, what that can do… the tsunami that ends up taking place when we really are pouring into the lives of others, expecting nothing in return. And then just pass it on to the next person, pass it on, pass it on. You know, this whole marketplace multipliers, which, honestly was a new concept to me of thinking of it like this, but I love it. I think it’s great because, you know, we need to bloom where we’re planted. Not everybody is going to be a minister in the walls of the church, and praise God, because that’s not where most of the people are! We need to bloom right where we’re planted. And if we’re open, God will use us, you know, we don’t have to manipulate ways to be able… I mean, God will use us right where we are with whatever gifts and talents he’s placed within us, He will use us, when we’re open. And I just think that’s so awesome.

Can I share real quick? I was just reading this morning – and I thought this was just perfect timing – in a devotion that I do on an app called Glorify. It was talking about Moses, and it was from Exodus4:1-12, and it was about when Moses said, “But God, what if they don’t believe me, or or, what if they don’t listen? And oh, God, I can’t really talk. I can’t really do this” You know, we think of all the excuses. “Well, I don’t know. I’m scared.” I mean, that’s what it really comes down to, is I’m scared. But there was a paragraph that I’d really like to read, because I thought this was just so powerful, and it just totally fit into what we’re talking about today. It says:

“Like Moses, when we doubt that we have what it takes to do what God is calling us to do, we are doubting God’s ability to empower us, and questioning how He created us. God wired you for work. He created you for your calling. He built you by design. God does nothing by accident, but everything with precision, clarity and purpose. Be encouraged, empowered and emboldened today. Go and do what God has called you to do!”

And I just thought, how perfect! This is exactly what, you know… Go and do what God’s called you to do!

Earl McJett:
That IS so perfect, absolutely! Well, thank you so much, Sally Hollenbach, Director of The Ohio Theatre, and the creator and director of Arts Alive. Thank you so much for sharing your inspirational story with us today! I really am inspired and ready to go out and bloom where I’m planted. So thank you very, very much.

Sally Hollenbach:
Thank you so much, Earl! God bless you!

Earl McJett:
God bless you as well! Take care.

Sally Hollenbach:
You, too!

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the GodWorx podcast. For more information, go to www.godworx.life. Please like and subscribe to this podcast, and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you, too, are called to be a marketplace multiplier as GodWorx through ordinary people with extraordinary influence.

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#26: Rachel Gulish

Earl McJett:
Welcome to the GodWorx podcast. I’m Earl McJett, your host. Today we’re joined by Rachel Gulish, owner of Superior Image Cleaning, a cleaning business in its 15th year serving predominantly in northern rural Michigan. Thank you so much for joining us today, Rachel!

Rachel Gulish:
Hi! Thank you for having me!

Earl McJett:
Wonderful. Can you tell us a little about yourself?

Rachel Gulish:
Yes, I have been married for 26 years to Jim Gulish who I met at Indiana Wesleyan University. We’ve been in full-time pastoral ministry together for 26 years. We have four kids… One is married and lives in Indiana, two are attending Indiana Wesleyan University – brothers that are roommates – and we’re about to be empty nesters in nine months when our last son, Jack, graduates from high school. So that is a little bit about who I am and where I’ve been.

Earl McJett:
Really exciting times! Lots of change in your life and all that. That is very, very exciting. We’re also empty nesters here at home, so I know what you’re going through with that process. As a marketplace multiplier, when I read a recent vision statement of yours, “Love, Liberate, Lead, Launch”, I was immediately drawn to the fact that “Launch” was set up to be the goal of that process. Can you tell us about the Launch aspect of your vision?

Rachel Gulish:
So that is the vision statement my husband had at our church. We set out and launched a church out of a rural church of 120 people, and we grew it to 120. So we launched 20 people north to Cadillac, Michigan. It was sort of a mission that we feel you don’t have to be a large church to be on mission. We have the aspect that we’re not getting saved to sit, but we wanna be saved and sent. And, you know, Jim and I are actually experiencing that personally too as we’re looking into the next phase of what God has in ministry for us.

Earl McJett:
I had the pleasure of attending the Marketplace Multipliers Conference last month at Radiant Church in Sturgis, Michigan. Wow! The Spirit of the Lord was truly present, and I left there inspired by what He’s doing through this movement! You were instrumental in facilitating this event. How did you come to be involved in it?

Rachel Gulish:
It was a neat thing. I’ve actually started to journal my experience of what I feel becoming a marketplace multiplier is. I call myself “a mom to a multiplier”. I started out as a stay-at-home mom, and then I started this small business, and 15 years later here we are. (This past) February I for the first time really felt like a marketplace multiplier. My ministry mostly connected with church, but in February, my husband was invited to a Zoom meeting on the topic of marketplace multiplying, and he invited me to go. So I sat in on it as well, and I learned about a conference that was being held at College Wesleyan Church. I attended that, and that is where I was greatly inspired. For the first time, I felt like this came full circle. You know, God gave me this business and now I can really use it for him. I’m actually to a place in it where I’m ready to free myself of responsibilities and become more in the mindset of, “How can I love people and help people that God has put in my path?” So after that conference, my husband and I got connected with Brandon from Radiant Life at a GLR event where Pastor Wayne Schmidt just sat us down at breakfast together and said, “You guys were at the same conference at College Wesleyan Church and you know I’d like to connect you with marketplace multiplying.” So that little breakfast kind of spurred on a lot of dream-casting and so yeah… two pastors, and six months later this conference was born. It was very intentional after that, but definitely orchestrated beforehand by the Lord.

Earl McJett:
Six months is not a long time to plan an impactful event! When I went there, I was really really inspired by it. I’m curious as to what the conference was like from your perspective.

Rachel Gulish:
When it comes to marketplace multiplying, it just clicks when it’s brought to light on this type of pedestal, with intentionality, and the testimony in the spotlight that you hear in a conference… It’s the Wow Factor that makes you realize – you’ve heard all your life to go and make disciples, and do it in your where you live, work and play, but for some reason when you hear the testimonies of people, it can just really change your perspective on it. And so Jim and I, we love the concept for churches to develop a packet-style response and encounter, maybe even a network style. One time we had an Exponential Roundtable at our church, it was actually during Covid. We had different churches from the area come, and we used the Exponential curriculum and it was all very inspirational. So Jim and I are kind of thinking something like that, where churches can encounter marketplace multiplying conferences through round tables, coming together, networking and putting on more of what we’ve been experiencing through conferences. And we’d love to see that happen more and more throughout northern rural Michigan, and definitely something we’re thinking about as we’re launching into a new phase of life and a new phase of ministry.

Earl McJett:
I love that vision of multiplying the movement itself. That is very exciting and very practical. So that’s for the leader of the movement itself. What do you see as next steps for people who are called, who accepted the call on their lives from God through commissioning at this previous event, and who might attend the other events that you’re envisioning?

Rachel Gulish:
For me, after I attended, it was, “Just get intentional, Rachel.” If you want to do this, you have to get intentional with people on your mind, especially in prayer. You have to take notice of the moments, the texts, the personal calls, the times that I have training with people… Bathing those in prayer ahead of time, and noticing the small things that matter. Doing the right thing, acting differently and finding opportunities to show Christ. For me, I needed to delegate more tasks so I could free up time. I’ve lately been finding one person weekly to coach, counsel or mentor. For my business, for Superior Image, intentionality came when I recently hired an administrative assistant, so now I can focus. So I started what I call Misson Monday or Marketplace Monday or something like that where I do try to find somebody to mentor. We’ve created a vision in the business now that says we wanna create a culture with a sense of appreciation that values others, letting our staff know that they are more than what they produce. We’ve put together newsletters, we want to have regional meetings. We just recently put together an employee dashboard where if they have a financial need or prayer request, or they need to talk to a chaplain. These are all just ways we’re trying to use a cleaning business to help people find missional community, and we’re hoping that these small things that we’re being intentional about can help. I’m a business owner and I’m just upfront about that, so whatever people can take away and get intentional about I think is what truly will make a difference in the long run.

Earl McJett:
That is so exciting! You are living the vision that we’ve been talking about with marketplace multipliers and GodWorx! And as more people emulate what you have done in your life with the people in your marketplace, the movement will be multiplied over and over and over again, one person at a time taking territory to build God‘s kingdom! So that is very exciting to me, and I really appreciate all that you’re doing to spread the word of marketplace multipliers, all that you’re doing to live it out, and all that you’re doing with the people that are in your marketplace to help them to grow closer to God through example, through your experience, through your prayers and through your acts of kindness with them, showing God‘s love to them! So thank you so very much for sharing this time with us and we’re so excited for you. I’ll continue to pray for you and thank you again very, very much for your time today.

Rachel Gulish:
Thank you, Earl! I appreciate it. And I’ll be praying for the movement as well!

Earl McJett:
Thank you so much!

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#25: Everyday Missionary Conference at LifePoint Church

Earl McJett:
Wow! Today we are in for a real treat! This is Earl McJett, the host of the GodWorx podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today! We have with us a very special guest! He is my senior pastor, the senior pastor of LifePoint Church in Waldorf, Maryland. Pastor Michael Rogalski!

Michael Rogalski
Good afternoon! So good to be with you today, Earl!

Earl McJett:
Thank you so much for joining us, Pastor Michael! I’m just so glad to be talking with you here. You know, I get to see you and talk with you a lot, but it’s just great that I get to talk with you in this forum here, and we get to talk about something that’s so near and dear to our hearts.

Michael Rogalski
Absolutely! We’ve been on this journey for awhile and, man, I love talking about it!

Earl McJett:
Absolutely! Well, can you share with us about the inspiration for “Everyday Missionaries” at LifePoint Church?

Michael Rogalski
Absolutely! It actually has a lot to do with the road that my office is right in front of. One car drives by every second. And statistically we have found that 60,000 people live within 5 miles of here that don’t know Jesus yet. We’re never going to build a 60,000 seat auditorium, or even a 6,000 seat auditorium. We have people, though, that work with those people. So for us, it’s more about – how do we create a space where people are sent out to live for Jesus as Everyday Missionaries wherever they live, work, study or play. So when I was doing a prayer walk on the sidewalk in front of that road, it just struck me that, man, there are so many people that need Jesus, and we have people who have experienced Jesus who work with them! So how do we catalyze them to live their faith with intentionality with those folks?

Earl McJett:
WOW! Well, what has Everyday Missionaries looked like as it’s been implemented at the church?

Michael Rogalski
Well, not everybody can see your face as they’re listening, Earl, but I’m looking at what it looks like right now! You, Earl… You do this! You go to work. God’s not called you to be a vocational minister. He’s called you into a vocation where you do ministry. So you do it! You’ve got a passion for the people you work with, to pray for them and share Jesus with them. And you’ve walked people through some of the curriculum that helps people grow in their understanding of this… Things like “The 9 Arts of Spiritual Conversations”. We as a church have talked about the Acts 1:8 vision, to share the love of Jesus here, near, hard and far places, and some of our classes are designed specifically for that. And we’ve also done a commissioning service to catalyze and commission laity to step into their purpose wherever God has them.

Earl McJett:
WOW! So LifePoint is hosting a conference on Everyday Missionaries. When will this happen, and what should participants expect from this event?

Michael Rogalski
Aw, man! We are so excited! We’ve never done anything like this before! We’re learning a lot, but I am so excited about it! It’s October 10-12 here on the LifePoint campus, and we’ve got things… We’ve got our very own Steve DeNeff is coming from Indiana to the DC area. He’s got a couple messages he’s bringing… One is how do we live for Jesus in a post-Christian world? How has ministry changed? What cultural insights do we need to know and be aware of? Dwight Nash is coming up from Texas talking about how to be pioneers in the workplace for what God has called us to do. We’ve got a few folks coming to talk about “Praying on Offense”… What does it look like to pray with intentionality? What does God want us to know and to do? And lots of table conversations and testimonies from some LifePointers that are here. Man, I’m so excited about it! Yeah, it’s coming up and we are ready!

Earl McJett:
I’m really excited about it, too! There’ve been so many things that have happened at LifePoint Church with respect to Everyday Missionaries, and so many stories have happened and stories have been told about people in our church who have shared their faith in their office settings or at school or in their communities. Are there gonna be Everyday Missionaries from LifePoint speaking at this conference?

Michael Rogalski
Absolutely! We’ve got a few people that will be giving their own stories… One held a public office. Another one saw God kinda shift her career and how she was able to live it on purpose. Another one, he’s actually a pastor and a contractor, so how do you live your faith with intentionality for your work. It’s just amazing to hear once we get ahold of God’s vision for the world and for the people with whom we work, how does that change the way we live, and act, and work, and conversations that we have. So, yeah, it’s… no one’s gonna wanna miss it!

Earl McJett:
Absolutely! Well then, where can we register for this event?

Michael Rogalski
Yeah, so if you go to our church website, iLifePoint.com, and then if you want to go straight to the page, you just do /emconference. Everyday Missionary Conference. So it’s iLifePoint.com/emconference. And there you can get the nitty gritty, there’s FAQ’s, you can register, and if you sign up soon you can select your (Friday) lunch. If you don’t sign up soon, we’ll pick your lunch for you. But, man, we’d love for you to sign up and join us here on campus.

Earl McJett:
So, we’re recording this podcast just one week before the conference. For those who listen to this too late to participate, will any of the content be available after the fact?

Michael Rogalski
We’re still working on that. So, we are gonna record it. We’re trying to figure out what the best medium is for sending it out afterward. I do kcnow the Marketplace Multipliers event that was in Indiana in April, hosted at College Wesleyan Church – all of their content is already online, so if you want a sneak peek at some really great material, you can go check out that site in the meantime. But we’d love to see any of you in person here on the campus October 10-12.

Earl McJett:
Thank you so much! That is so exciting! Now, it turns out that the conference at LifePoint is one in a series of conferences that have been held or are going to be held, and if you want more information about some of the other conferences that are upcoming, please go to www.GodWorx.life. The website’s Events page has all of the other upcoming conferences listed, and you can sign up for those as well. So again, thank you so very much, Pastor Michael, for talking with us today!

Michael Rogalski
Man, it’s been awesome to be together again, and thanks for the opportunity! Love what you guys are doing!

Earl McJett:
Thanks so much! Take care!

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#24: The True North Bible Study

Carrie Whitcher:
Carrie, thank you for joining the GodWorx podcast where marketplace multipliers are ordinary people with extraordinary influence. My name is Carrie Whitcher, and I am privileged to lead the national GodWorx Strategy Team. GodWorx to equip all Christians to integrate their faith, and influence their marketplace by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are.

Earl McJett:
Welcome to another episode of the GodWorx podcast. I’m your host, Earl McJett. Today we are joined by Dr. Dave Smith, Professor Emeritus of Bible at Indiana Wesleyan University, and author of the True North Bible Study. Welcome, Dr. Dave!

Dave Smith:
Earl, thanks so much for having me. I’m looking forward to our discussion.

Earl McJett:
And I am very excited to discuss this with you as well today! Thank you so much for your time. Your website refers to the True North Bible Study as an adventure in Kingdom cartography. This sounds intriguing! Can you explain to us what you mean by that?

Dave Smith:
Absolutely! Cartography is the study of map making, and if you think about it, it’s not just directions that we go north, south, east or west. It’s whether or not we see ourselves as being earth dwellers or Kingdom of Heaven dwellers. And so map making is not just two dimensional, but it can be three dimensional. And in this case, that’s what True North is all about. How do we calibrate our lives in a way that fashions us to be fit for heaven when we get there. So that’s what True North is all about: how to read, how to interpret, how to apply the Word, so we actually look and sound and act more like Jesus every day.

Earl McJett:
Wow. Well, tell us about the process of developing the True North Bible Study. What was that like?

Dave Smith:
Yeah, thanks for that question, because that’s the story behind the story, if you will. You can look at the book and that’s the actual material, but the origin of that will go back about 15 years. I’ve taught at Indiana Wesleyan since 2000. I’ve also taught up at Kingswood University in New Brunswick, Canada for about five years. And during that time, I would often go into local churches that were pastored by my former students. They would invite me in, and they would invite me in to teach Bible study methods to their lay people. And I would go in on a regular basis and do this, and almost every time I did that, when I got done teaching, I would end the session with a Q&A time, and the lay people of the church would turn to their pastor and say, “Now, was Dr. Smith your professor?” “Yes.” “Did he teach you how to read the scriptures like this?” They would say, “Yes.” And then the lay people would say, “Then, why didn’t you teach US how to read the scriptures like this?” Now that happened again and again and again, until I realized something. It was a epiphany that I had. I was teaching pastors how to read Scripture. I wasn’t teaching pastors how to teach other people how to read Scripture. And so all of my curriculum in the classroom and of True North changed radically. So instead of me teaching people just simply how to read, I taught people how to teach people how to read, which makes it disciple-making material, not just material on biblical interpretation. So that’s the overall goal of True North. The name of the material, “True North, Disciple Making In The Word”… that’s what I’m attempting to do, and that’s what’s really kind of caught fire, if you will. And I hope it begins to change the culture of churches so that no longer are they just thinking, “I’m going to go to church on Sunday morning so I can hear the pastor tell me what he’s heard from God.” Monday through Saturday, I can be at home, read the scriptures myself and hear from the Lord seven days a week!

Earl McJett:
That is wonderful. So how can True North help to equip people who are not called to vocational ministry, to share their faith journey where they live, work and study?

Dave Smith:
The call is a really interesting term, as it’s used biblically. Often we hear the word “call” like it’s a call to vocational ministry, but the word “call” is used with every single Christian. We are all called to be image bearers of Christ to all the people that are watching. I mean, you know this passage from the Sermon on the Mount: “Let your light shine before men and women that they may see your good works and glorify our Father who is in heaven.” We are all called to be image bearers. So that’s what True North is all about. It’s helping us to be able to read the words of Jesus, to interpret them. Now, the word interpret sounds like a technical term. Let’s just say that I can read the words of Jesus, understand what they meant as he spoke them, and then be able to apply them to our cultural settings in the here and now. And when we do that, we become image bearers of Christ. People will see us and ask questions about our behavior, about the way we react in very difficult situations, whether they be life situations or even life and death situations. How come we act different from other people? And the reason is, “Let me tell you a story about a man named Jesus who changed my life radically.” That’s what True North is about.

Earl McJett:
That is so profound. So if someone’s interested in pursuing this Bible study… You know, it sounds really practical and like it’s the kind of thing that will help people to share their faith and to disciple other disciples in their lives. How much Bible do they have to know before they begin this study?

Dave Smith:
Zero. Absolutely zero. I make a presupposition, and that is this: When I was 25 years old, I wanted to date this young woman. Her name happened to be Angie. She said she would not go out with me unless I went to church with her. Now, you need to know that tomorrow, we celebrate our 43rd anniversary! So this woman made an impact on me.

Earl McJett:
Congratulations.

Dave Smith:
Thank you. I went to church with her. I’d never been to church, I’d never read the Bible, and it was on Good Friday, so it was right before Easter. The pastor was preaching on Mark chapter 15. And he said, “Everybody, open your Bible and turn to Mark 15.” Earl, I had no idea what he was talking about. I actually needed a map to be able to figure out what was going on in the Bible. Angie turned in her Bible to Mark 15 and handed it to me, and that changed my life. I found out that Jesus died for me. Now, I didn’t give my heart to the Lord right then, but I began a journey on this map called the Old and the New Testaments. And so when it comes to using True North, you need absolutely no Bible background whatsoever. The first quarter of the book is teaching us why the reading of Scripture is so important. So it’s kind of the biblical and theological foundations on the authority of the Word, if you will, and why it’s important to radically transform our lives. The last three fourths of the book is how to do this. You need to know no Bible whatsoever. I’m assuming you know nothing. I’m actually assuming you don’t know what the chapters and the verses mean. It is my way of coaching, of guiding, of directing. So think of it this way: It’s really written in the first person, like you and I are sitting across the table from each other in Starbucks, and I am discipling you on how to read Scripture. Now, Earl, all the material on my website, which is TrueNorthBibleStudy.com… All the material out there is free! There is a workbook, about 180 pages you can download electronically onto your laptop, your phone, your tablet. Or if you want to, you can print it out and take it to Staples and have them bind it. Whatever means you want. But it’s me discipling you in how to read Scripture. So I’m giving everything to you for free, with only one particular direction, and that is that you would then disciple somebody else with this! Now, hear me carefully. We are all called to be disciples. Very often in our current culture, our goal is to become a convert, and then somebody will say, “Would you like to move ahead in discipleship?” That’s not a biblical understanding of conversion. You don’t become a convert and then stop there. That’s the beginning point. Most people have not been discipled. That’s why they don’t disciple other people. So allow me through True North to disciple you in how to read the Scripture, and I will give you everything for free. But what I’m begging you… Would you then please promise to do discipleship with one other person? Invite one other person to have a Starbucks coffee with you once a week and work through the material. Now online, you’ll be able to find either a 9 or a 12-week Bible study that you can go through. It’s all laid out there. And as a matter of fact, Kingswood University has actually done a full video class with me that’s also on the website. So not only do you have the text, but you have my wonderful smiling face to to go along with the material. But I want to make a kingdom force of disciple makers. And if somebody has not been discipled, go through this material. As I said, I speak first person in this book. The very first draft of it, I gave to a number of my former students, and I asked them to read it. They said, “Dr, Dave, this is really good, only it doesn’t sound like you, because you always talk to us like we’re the most important person in the room.” So I actually rewrote it to be totally first person, very conversational. So it’s just you and me doing this, and then I want you to do that with somebody else that multiply out to two, to four, to eight. So there will become in local churches, Kingdom forces of disciple makers in the Word

Earl McJett:
Oh, that is wonderful. I’m inspired by your vision as well. We will reprint the URL, the web address that you’ve cited in the show notes. Can you repeat that for us one more time? Please?

Dave Smith:
Yes, it’s TrueNorthBibleStudy.com, and if anybody has any questions, there is a contact link on that page. They can contact me directly, send me emails, any information about their church. I often go into local churches and do weekend seminars on teaching people how to read Scripture. So if they want to get some more information, that’s there. And finally, let me just add this one little bit. If you go down to the bottom of the website’s Home page, you’ll see a link that will toggle it between English and Spanish. So Spanish speakers, if somebody in your church that is Hispanic and does not know how to read Scripture, this is done in their heart language, so they as well can read it.

Earl McJett:
That is so wonderful.

Dave Smith:
And in the videos that Kingswood has done, the videos actually have Hispanic subtitles that go along with it!

Earl McJett:
That is wonderful! Well, thank you so very much for your time today, Dr. Dave. It’s been wonderful talking with you!

Dave Smith:
And thank you so very much, Earl! Thank you for your time. I appreciate it, and I am just excited about what might happen in a contagious way if somebody actually begins to pray, to read, to interpret and to apply the Word in community with other people. It is radically transformational. That’s my goal.

Earl McJett:
Wonderful. Thank you so very much.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of The GodWorx podcast. For more information, go to www.GodWorx.life. Please like and subscribe to this podcast, and share with others who may benefit. And remember: You, too, are called to be a marketplace multiplier as God works through ordinary people with extraordinary influence!

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#23: The Beginning of GodWorx

Earl McJett:
Welcome to the GodWorx podcast! Today we are thrilled to talk to Carrie Whitcher, the leader of the National GodWorx Strategy Team, and Dr. Wayne Schmidt, General Superintendent of the Wesleyan Church, about switching from Marketplace Multipliers to GodWorx, and where the ministry is going in the future. We’re excited to talk to these two, so let’s get started. Dr Wayne, can you refresh us on your perspective and vision for Marketplace Multipliers?

Wayne Schmidt:
I sure would be glad to. It started early for me, because my dad was a person who lived his faith, and I worked alongside him when I was a kid, and that planted a seed in me, recognizing the incredible influence that marketplace multipliers – that people have in their everyday context of life, and how God had providentially placed people in settings… people who may never begin a spiritual journey by walking into a church, but are already in a place where others can be of encouragement and influence in their life. So the more I saw that unfold in the lives of just so many marketplace multipliers, people active in their context, I thought, “How do we, as pastors, champion that and commission and encourage that?” And that’s really what led to Marketplace Multipliers leading the movement, and pastors supporting and encouraging lay people in whatever context God has placed them to be that disciple-making influence for others.

Earl McJett:
Wonderful. Thanks. Carrie, the Marketplace Multipliers ministry has been on an incredible journey for the last five years with a dedicated Strategy Team led by marketplace multipliers from across the US. Tell us about some of the key strategies that have been implemented, and where you see the ministry going next.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you, Earl. I’d be happy to share! Marketplace Multipliers seeks to equip all Christians to integrate their faith and influence their workplace by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are. And as Dr Wayne noted, we do this in whatever career or areas of influence that we are led into. We know that God is at work where we work, and so we serve the higher interests of the kingdom while leading with excellence in the marketplace. I’ll share that our Strategy Team is truly top notch, with senior level leadership from a variety of industries and backgrounds, specifically the federal government, healthcare, business and organizational development, collegiate sports and others. And this team has been advancing the vision that I just shared, along with our ongoing inspiration from scripture. Our Strategy Team remains committed to abiding by God’s direction and plans, with continued obedience to our collective calling to make disciples in our marketplaces. In fact, Matthew 28:19-20 reminds us of the Great Commission. “Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always to the very end of the age.” I also think about Acts 1:8, which also tells us that, “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all of Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth.” You see, God calls us and equips us for ministry right here, near and even far. We do not need permission. We simply need to obey and serve those around us by sharing our faith and helping others see their influence to bring others to Christ right where they are, every single day. As I think about our key strategies over the last five years, we have been intentional in establishing the vision I shared and a related strategy with tactics and resources to help both marketplace multipliers and pastors visualize and act upon the influence that they have in their day-to-day environment. These resources have included – but are not limited to – the development of a website, a podcast, a book launch with marketplace multiplier stories and steps to get started. A Starter Kit has been developed for churches or groups with pastors and laity. A prayer app and a book called “Praying On Offense”, and the latest efforts to contextualize and launch church conferences that bring pastors and laity together to further fuel the movement within congregations. We also think about what’s next for this ministry, and and our team has really worked hard to continue to advance our strategic direction through the establishment of multi-year objectives, and the three areas that continue to serve our strategic focus to continually drive action in the coming years include, first, “Sustainability and Expansion”, continuing to explore new partnerships and funding sources. Second, “Curriculum Deployment”, where we’ve been working to offer already curated content that supports churches, inclusive of pastors and laity. And third, “Advancing Kingdom Force Language”, where we’re focused on engaging marketplace multipliers to execute this great commission through sharing of stories, Lunch-&-Learns, and modeling the disciple-making process through ongoing conversations with marketplace multipliers and connection to supportive resources. As part of this, we’re also launching a social media presence on Facebook, X, Instagram and LinkedIn to provide regular connection and learning opportunities.

Earl McJett:
Wow. That is very inspiring! Thank you. So what led to the decision to navigate a rebranding process?

Carrie Whitcher:
Well, late last year, our Strategy Team discussed the collective desire to continue to create awareness of the Marketplace Multiplier ministry through advanced connection with laity and pastoral leadership, as well as an improved digital presence through an updated website and a new social media presence. As all of this began to unfold, it became clear that God’s timing was now to evaluate our current brand. Our sole intention in this rebranding effort has been to clarify and to optimize our former marketplace multiplier brand with a renewed focus that our ministry goes far beyond the corporate setting or the workplace alone. It’s also intended to reach those who are retired, working at home, those who are raising children and grandchildren, students, or as you visit your local community coffee shop. So this movement is not new, but it is a clarification of our intention to invite the everyday layperson who works anywhere to be influenced by God, and become marketplace multipliers, who we define as ordinary people with extraordinary influence. So what is new is our name, GodWorx, (with an X at the end) is our new brand, replacing our brand of Marketplace Multipliers. I think it’s also important to share that we’re going to continue to stay true to these foundational “marketplace multiplier” words as they will continue to be used when we talk about GodWorx in a variety of settings. For instance, those who participate in this GodWorx movement are marketplace multipliers.

Earl McJett:
Absolutely. Well, what’s the significance of the name GodWorx?

Carrie Whitcher:
Well, we’re thrilled to announce that the new dawn of what I would call a new step in our marketplace multiplier movement… So, formerly known as Marketplace Multipliers, we’re proud to share this refreshed identity of GodWorx where our vision remains steadfast in that we are all called to be marketplace multipliers, who are just ordinary people intentionally integrating our faith into our marketplaces, using our influence to make disciples and unleash God’s Kingdom wherever we are. Our place of work is part of our mission field, whether that be at home or a factory, at a large corporation or small business, in a classroom or your local coffee shop. GodWorx wants to inspire and equip Christians with resources, tools, connection opportunities and so much more.

Earl McJett:
Absolutely. Wow. So, Dr. Wayne and Carrie, your leadership has inspired an amazing ministry. In closing, what is your hope for the future for GodWorx, and how might pastors and laity get started?

Carrie Whitcher:
My hope for all who are listening is to hear the same calling on your life and marketplace, and as Christians, to pray and share your story, to unleash God’s kingdom and make disciples in all of the areas you have influence in right now. And that includes, of course, where you work, in your home, or even waiting in line at the grocery store. I think it’s so important to not wait to have all the answers. I think this time and this season is calling for us to be bold, and faithful, and encouraging, and courageous in this world today, to develop godly relationships and to share our faith. I also think it’s not important for someone to wait to be approached about the opportunity to serve in this form of ministry. We just all have to start somewhere, right from where we are in our marketplace, and that can include starting by engaging your pastor and sharing more about your desire to integrate your faith in your workplace, home or community. This could result in a small group at a church that supports one another in leveraging the resources on our website. It’s just key that as marketplace multipliers, we don’t wait for that perfect plan to unveil itself before we take action. God has purpose in our place, right here, right now. We need to pray about that. We need to ask for His wisdom, and we need to be willing to learn as we go. And then invite others to join us in the journey, because it requires all of us, local, global partnerships between clergy and laity, and all of our diverse talents and gifts to contribute in spirit-led ways to His call. So that is my broader hope for what I see evolving here, but I’ll turn it over to Dr. Wayne for his ideas and thoughts.

Wayne Schmidt:
Wow, that is an amazing summary of the benefits of GodWorx. One of the things I just love about it is how it includes all people in all settings. I think “marketplace multipliers”, for some, leads to the thought, “Well, if I’m not in a workplace context, then this isn’t for me.” And yet for many people, their primary context may be different than their workplace. And so, to me, it invites all of us, whether we primarily spend time in a place of our living or our community engagement, or in our workplace invites all of us to be involved. And the other thing I love about it is sometimes the impression is that it’s for one kind of person, so not only one kind of place, but one kind of person. And I love the fact that GodWorx includes people who are older, people who are younger, women and men, variety of ethnicities. An area of growth for us is those who speak Spanish as their primary language. It it translates well for them in their settings. So it’s the flexibility of the name that reminds us it’s not only about the place or the person, but it’s about the fact that God is already there and already working, and we’re joining him wherever we are.

Earl McJett:
Absolutely. Thank you so very much.

Carrie Whitcher:
I’d love to close if I could, Earl, with just inviting everyone to go to our new website at www.godworks.life for more information on this ministry, as well as resources to get started. There is also an ongoing opportunity to reach out to us to share your thoughts and ideas to continue to spread this movement. And we’re happy to connect people to resources and other marketplace multipliers as well. So if folks would like to send an email, they can do so at contact@godworks.life, and we will be sure to engage and follow up with you to learn more.

Earl McJett:
It has been such a pleasure talking with you both. Thank you so very much for sharing with us today.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you, Earl.

Wayne Schmidt:
I’ve loved to have the privilege of praying for continued success.

Carrie Whitcher:
Amen.

Earl McJett:
Amen.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of The GodWorx podcast. For more information, go to www.godworx.life. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and share with others who may benefit. And remember you, too, are called to be a marketplace multiplier as God works through ordinary people with extraordinary influence.

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#22: The First Marketplace Multipliers Conference

Carrie Whitcher:
Hi, everyone. My name is Carrie Whitcher, and you, too, can be a marketplace multiplier, because marketplace multipliers equip all Christians to influence their workplace and integrate their faith by making disciples and unleashing the Kingdom of God wherever they are.

Earl McJett:
Welcome to the Marketplace Multipliers podcast! I’m Earl McJett, a member of the Marketplace Multipliers Team. Today we’re gonna talk about the Marketplace Multipliers Conference that was held at College Wesleyan Church in Marion, Indiana in April of this year. Our guests today are Dr. Jeffrey Clark, the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University, and Pastor Emily Vermilya, the Pastor of Operations and Development at College Wesleyan Church. So, tell us about the conference! What was the purpose of this conference?

Jeff Clark:
Marketplace Multipliers is just something that’s been in the hearts of a lot of people over time. Some by the name of “Marketplace Multipliers”, some by other names, but just the rising of the laity and the empowerment of the priesthood of all believers, I think, is something that’s a passion of a growing number of people. About a year ago, Dr. Wayne Schmidt had set down with, you (Earl) were at the table, and me, and Pastor Steve DeNeff, and he had just pitched the idea of sending this more to the front lines of the local church. He asked if we would start it at College Wesleyan Church, where I attend for the last 18 years, Pastor Emily’s been on staff for years, and Pastor DeNeff’s been the lead pastor for years, and then you guys, (the Marketplace Multipliers Team) would follow up. So that was kinda the genesis of it. And then over the course of a year we planned it, advertised it, promoted it and got people to come. We really just shared what’s been happening over the course of time as this has been a push from the pastoral staff to us as lay at College Wesleyan Church, and wanted to showcase that, but then also engage pastors and lay alike in this work and what it looks like to take this into various contexts beyond the walls of the church.

Earl McJett:
That is really wonderful! I think that those of us who attended got exactly what you were talking about out of it, and really feel empowered to go out, spread the gospel and share our faith in the contexts in which we serve outside of the church, and in our families, our workplaces, schools, every place where we engage with people. We know they need Jesus, and you all really gave us a lot of tools, and strategies and ideas on how to share our faith. So, really, thank you very much for that. So, Pastor Emily, this was a daunting task to undertake. It really was the very first in the series, so you all were blazing the path for us. So what was it like planning for this event?

Emily Vermilya:
Well, actually it felt like a doorway back into something that College Church has been able to do in the past. Covid obviously threw us a little bit off of our historical game of being able to host some conferences and workshops where we’ve been able to invite people into our context, try to gather and network people together, share maybe a bit of what we’ve learned and also learn from others who come into our context here. But I think the greatest challenge, or the new aspect of this particular Marketplace Multipliers Conference was to really the desire we had to involve the people of our congregation who are doing this Kingdom work so effectively in our community, who have really risen to the call of God to be ministers wherever they are, whether it be in their workplace or their homes. And the goal here was not really for our pastoral staff to stand up front and present something, but rather for our people who are serving so well to share about their experience, to be able to share a bit about what they’ve learned. And then again for those in our context here in Marion to get to network with people from across the country, or in some cases, people from Canada, wherever they came from to say, ‘Where are we finding unique challenges within our different domains of service?’. That’s for those working, but it could be for those serving as stay-at-home moms, or whatever other domain they’re serving in, and being able to network with one another and ask one another questions about how is it we’re best serving into this calling of the Kingdom wherever we’ve been placed.

Earl McJett:
Wow! Thank you so much for doing that! Again, all of the effort ahead of time to prepare this event really showed through in the execution, which was wonderful! And again, it was a very impactful event for us! Jeff, what were some of the highlights of the event for you?

Jeff Clark:
I think what really stood out… One, was the shared hunger in the room. People were coming from so many different places and backgrounds and locations across this country, but there was a shared heartbeat for this work. The second thing I would say, being embedded in a local church that has been on this journey over years, to see so many of our people get up front and testify to how God is working in different places around the community we live in… It was really meaningful, because I do think whenever you’re following God on any path, it’s often you get so caught up in daily life, it’s easy to miss how He’s working. And when person after person was able to get up front and share testimony of how God was working in schools or businesses or in a variety of contexts after having been led that way by our staff of pastors for so many years, it was just an encouragement and an inspiration to say, “Wow! God really has done some significant things as a result of the laity being empowered.”

Earl McJett:
Thank you so much, Jeff! Pastor Emily, what were some of the highlights that stood out for you?

Emily Vermilya:
I think seeing some of the things we wondered about or were nervous about prove to be very fruitful. So when you plan an event or a conference, I think the tendency is to feel like you almost need to over-program the event, you have to have minute-by-minute activity. And of the things very early on in the conversation with the team that was dreaming about this, discerning what we should include, one of the things that was said early on was that we have to leave time for people to interact with one another, to network, to talk. And that’s a little unnerving from a planning standpoint, and yet from the very beginning that proved very true. That’s what people came hungry for, and you didn’t have to thread that needle very far. As long as people understood the context of what we were gathered for, people found one another, or helped each other find one another in terms of who served in what type of domain or capacity, and conversation flowed pretty naturally. There were ideas shared, and flowing freely from one person to the next, one group to the next. It was encouraging to overhear conversations even from groups that came from areas together, and to be inspired by another group of people, and to start to dream a little bit about what that could mean in their context. So, I think, for me, a highlight was the engagement and interaction I saw amongst those attending. That was pretty compelling in this idea of why gathering together is so important, and recognizing that the idea of the gathered church that is sent is even pertinent in this idea… that there’s a reason for us to gather together and then been sent back out into the marketplace. And so I think there’s a real inspiration here as to why this can continue, and people can continue to find motivation and calling in this, and help one another as they continue on this journey of being representatives of the Kingdom in the places where God has placed them.

Earl McJett:
Yes. I certainly know that I had some God-appointed conversations at the event as well. I met with people not only who were speakers and on panels, but also with people who just shared the tables with us. So I really appreciated the opportunity that you all provided for us. One of the most impactful parts of the event for me came at the very end when we had the closing prayer. Jeff, can you tell us a little about how that was structured and what we were meant to get from that?

Jeff Clark:
Yes, so at the end… It was about half pastors and half non-clergy. It was the pastors and their people coming together, and the time together finished with pastors praying over and commissioning lay, and lay praying over and commissioning pastors. And there was just this symbolic gesture of – there’s not tiers in the Kingdom here. We’re all called to different things, and we’re partnering together to advance the Gospel. And doing that together in that room as a way to finish and send each other out was a powerful gesture, I thought, organized by Pastor Steve and Pastor Emily, as a great way to finish this event where we’re talking about ministry beyond the walls of the church and how pastors and lay partner together. It was just a really fitting end to the entire conference.

Earl McJett:
It truly was, and it set a really high bar for the next event. And LifePoint Church in Waldorf, Maryland will be hosting the next event in October. We will have further details about that event that we will publicize on the Marketplace Multipliers website, at www.marketplacemultipliers.com.

Jeff Clark:
It’s really exciting, Earl, to think about this being an ongoing event, not just at one location, because this a work meant for all believers. So to think about you guys doing it next, but then who knows in 2025 how many locations there may be, or how many different churches or regions will take on a conference like this. So, I’m curious as you guys are planning and praying and dreaming about yours, what’s the hopes you guys have for what happens at your conference?

Earl McJett:
What we’re hoping for the conference we’ll have at LifePoint Church in Waldorf, Maryland is that we will have a move of God that happens here that empowers the laity to go out and spread the gospel in our unique contexts here. Many of the people that are in the Washington DC metropolitan area work in government or work in support of government, defense contractors or mapping the human genome or all of these other things. The context here is different from the context in other parts of the country. Each place that will host subsequent conferences will have a different context and bring a different perspective to it, and have different needs for empowering their laity to share the gospel in their context. So we’re hoping for a move of God in the same way that we saw in Marion that speaks specifically to the people that are in this area so they are empowered to share their faith in their particular context.

Emily Vermilya:
I would add to that, Earl, that I really love the idea that there’s a contextualization to this, a consideration that there’s not a cookie-cutter model to how this is being done, because the reality is we all go into different spaces everyday. There are different considerations that have to be made, different people that need to be considered, different conversations we’ll have to have, different actions we have to take in our workplaces or the venues that we relationally live out our faith. And I think that’s probably the greatest contribution that can be made in having these in different places, different locations, listening to one another. We may not have in our context here in Marion a lot of people that operate in those same occupational contexts as you do, Earl, and yet I think there’s probably a lot we can glean and learn from listening in on the conversations that folks in your neck of the woods are having and apply those things even here, or in Colorado, or in California, or in Beijing, China or wherever in the world we are. And I think that is part of this ongoing conversation, the way we continue to learn from one another, just recognizing this is not a “one event, you do it, you get your certificate and you move on.” Rather, it’s an ongoing learning that we have as followers, as disciples and something that the Lord continues to grow in each of us.

Earl McJett:
That is so wonderful to consider! Thank you both so much for your insight, Pastor Emily and Jeff. We really appreciate your service! We thank you so much for putting on such an impactful event for Marketplace Multipliers and kicking off this series of events that will happen. Again, thank you so very much!

Jeff Clark:
Thanks for having us, Earl!

Emily Vermilya:
Thank you.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast, and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you, too, can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ!

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#21: Reaching Individuals in the Workplace and the Church

Carrie Whitcher:
Hi, everyone. My name is Carrie Whitcher, and you too can be a marketplace multiplier because marketplace multipliers equip all Christians to influence their workplace and integrate their faith by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are.

Jeff Clark:
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. My name is Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. We’re gonna be joined today by Pastor Rob Paterson, the lead pastor of New Hope Community Church in Loudonville, Ohio. He offers a really unique perspective as someone who served as a pastor, transitioned to work in the marketplace for a season and is now leading a church again. It gives some great wisdom both for pastors and lay people who are passionate about marketplace ministry. Pastor Rob, welcome to the show.

Rob Paterson:
Thank you so much. It’s great to be here!

Jeff Clark:
I love the conversation we had before we started recording just about some of the tensions that some people feel when they’re talking about marketplace multipliers, but just how you’ve been thinking about them in your role as a lead pastor. Could you share a little bit about how you’ve been seeing it?

Rob Paterson:
Yeah, for sure. So, you know, as I was saying to you before, for years I’ve thought about how many of these false dichotomies there are in the church, and literally for decades probably, I’ve heard sermons about one of them… the idea of the sacred and the secular. And really as holiness people sometimes, you know, we pour gas on that, too. We’re like, “Wow. I could never go to those places or talk to those people because they’re secular, and we are sacred people of God!” And I sort of feel like when Jesus died, when the curtain was ripped from top to bottom in the temple, it was God’s way of saying, “Hey, listen. There’s no longer the Holy of Holies or the Most Holy Place. I am literally everywhere, and I want to renew. I want to restore. I want to reconcile all things unto myself. And so my people need to be where my presence is, which isn’t just in this one small space where only certain people could go at certain times of the year. I am everywhere, and so you should go everywhere and try to be a part of my work”.

And, one of the things that I’m hearing a lot more in the church, even in my own church, is people talking about, how there’s ministry, (there’s the church world), and then there’s this other “lesser thing” that is creeping into the church that we gotta be really careful of called the business world. And, you know, we’re trying to pull in all these business principles, like somehow these effective principles that allow people to be successful and make a difference come from hell, but if we’re praying – even if we’re not effective – those things are godly and churchy. And I just feel like that’s a false dichotomy, and God has given us beautiful things that sometimes, you know, people have discovered and figured out and even refined out in the business world that we should use in the church world because these are things that are from God that he has given to us.

Jeff Clark:
Part of what I love about what you’re saying is when we don’t allow every person to fully live into what God has called them to and who he’s made them to be everywhere, we’re actually limiting the kingdom potential of the ministries we lead. So it’s not just what happens in the church that you lead, but what happens going out of the church that you lead. And I understand you actually had a season of life where you were forced into a different type of ministry. So talk a little bit about that and how that shaped how you view all of this.

Rob Paterson:
Yeah, so it was about 12… well, 13 and a half years ago. We were in a transitional period, going from a church that we planted in West Michigan to a 10-year-old church planting church that was a little bit bigger in north-central Ohio where I am now. And so I stepped down from my position, and we were making this transition, and then there was this six month pause. That’s a whole other podcast episode, a whole other story. And so I’m like, “Well, I’ve already quit one job, and I’m not starting the other job, so I need to make some money in this period of time.” And the grandparent church that helped us plant the church up in West Michigan, there were a couple guys that attended there who owned a bunch of car dealerships. And so I got connected there, and they’re like, “You can come sell cars, you know, as long as you want to.” So for six months, I was a car salesman. And, you know, it’s kind of a funny thing to say, but sometimes I think people think car salesman and pastors are very similar anyway.

But my joke is after having done that for six months, there were two things that happened. Number one is – and we went church pretty much every Sunday still… But after spending 40, 50, 60 hours during the week working, if I went to church and it was not good or just went on and on for no reason… Man, as someone who’d spent that amount of time and energy during the week, it completely changed my perspective on the level of quality and value that we need to add in those weekly experiences. But the other thing that was really shaping for me, and I tell pastors this all the time: I actually did more direct ministry in six months selling cars than I have done in almost 30 years as a pastor! Because here’s the truth. Right? Like, so what does it mean if we wanna take seriously this mandate to equip the saints for the work of ministry? Well, if we’re going to minister to people, if we’re gonna serve God and reach people and help people, where are those people? Are they showing up at our church services every week? Nope. They are out in the marketplace. They’re out in the world. So how do we then equip our people, commission our people who are business leaders and who work in the marketplace to reach people for Jesus because that’s where they are. The idea that, “We just gotta get them to the church!” They’re not coming to the church, at least not in in the numbers they once were. So if we can equip and commission our people who are already in those places, who already have those relationships, It changes things!

Jeff, I was telling you – at the car dealership, there was this one guy. His name was Steve. I’ll leave his last name off just sort of for anonymity. But, it was great because he would he would come up with the golf cart, poke his head in the dealership, and say, “Hey, preacher man! Come with me!” And I’d hop on the golf cart as he chain smoked his cigarettes, and he just wanted to talk about life and struggles and Jesus. I didn’t have to force that conversation at all or figure out a a strategy or a tactic. And by the six months time, when I was actually leaving to come lead the church that I now lead, he made me promise that I would come back to Michigan and perform his funeral when he died because just in that short amount of time, the relationship that we built and the impact that I was able to have on his life was a pretty cool thing.

Jeff Clark:
As you’re talking, it almost makes me wish every clergy could go spend a few months working in a regular job, and every layman could go work in the clergy for a few months. And I wonder how much both would be more fully equipped to do their job. But it really leads me to to ask you this final question. As you have come back and led a church now, after having that experience, what’s changed about how you’ve led your people knowing what it was like to work a 60 hour work week then come to church, but then wanna do ministry out in the marketplace because that’s where you were spending so much time?

Rob Paterson:
Yeah. You know and I’ve heard other people talk about this. This isn’t unique to me. But I think in the church world, we have a problem with, ownership and control, and we sort of view the church, too, as the epicenter of all things. And so if a church needs, like, a youth pastor, but maybe for their size or their location or whatever, they don’t really need a full time youth pastor. They could literally, you know, have someone who’s part time or whatever. Churches sometimes really struggle with that because they’re like, “No, we want to completely own or control this person, and so we’d rather pay them for hours we don’t even need in order to (retain control).” We do this. And we do the same thing in the business world. Right? We’re like, “Hey, there’s this great business leader in my church!” And so instead of wanting to equip them and commission them and say, “What you’re doing is exactly what God wants you to do!”, instead, we want them to do a little bit less of that so that they can chair this committee or serve on that team within the church. And then those business people shrivel up and die because they’re bored. They’re really not using their potential, the stuff that God has placed within them. And so for me, like, my thought is always – I don’t wanna control anybody. I don’t want them to only ever serve within the walls of the church. I wanna give the church away. I want to unleash people so that they can do, you know, what God has placed within them. Inside the walls of the church, sure. But if someone’s primary life is outside the walls of the church, it would be a shame if they missed those opportunities to love people, to care for people, and to really sort of reflect who Jesus is to those people that they’re around every single day.

Jeff Clark:
I love your passion and heartbeat, Pastor Rob. And I actually do have one follow-up question. You’ve given some great wisdom and insight to pastors. You said, “I worked as a person in a car place, and now I’ve been a pastor.” Why don’t you give some wisdom to the layperson who’s listening now who’s never been a pastor?

Rob Paterson:
Yeah.

Jeff Clark:
What did you take into the role in the marketplace? How would you encourage that person to actually do this ministry, that work that you’re talking about, to be effective ministers of the gospel while doing something like selling cars?

Rob Paterson:
Yeah. So I’m a very curious person, and I love to learn, so that served me well. But quite honestly, I mean, I’ve purchased a lot of cars in my lifetime, but, you know, I didn’t know anything about how to sell cars. I mean, for weeks, I was taking all these tests and trainings to learn about how do you program the radio in this model of car and, you know, those kinds of things. So I was learning a lot of stuff. But, honestly, I didn’t know what I was doing. But by the end of that six month window, when I went and sat down in the owner’s office and said to him, “Hey, this position’s opened up now, and I need to go do this in the church”, he actually looked at me, and he said, “What if I match the salary that they’re offering you to keep you here?” So here’s a guy literally who doesn’t know anything about selling cars, and the owner of this dealership is offering to pay me a significant amount of money to stay there. So what had I done? I controlled the things I could control. I wore, literally a jacket and tie every single day to sell cars. Now you don’t usually go to a car dealership and find people in jackets and ties, but I’m like, you know what? I can’t control that I don’t know how to sell cars, but I can control, like, my appearance and how hard I work. And the reason that the owner of the dealership wanted to retain me is because I showed up on time. I was positive. I contributed, you know, in good ways to the overall environment of the dealership. So I think a lot of times, you know, people who just they wanna be lights for Jesus. They wanna make a difference, but they’re so overwhelmed with, I gotta learn this, and I don’t know that. Listen, just control the things that you can control and be a positive presence in the environment that you’re in, and God will use that. And when people ask you, “Hey, why are you so positive? It seems like you haven’t sold a car in two weeks, and, you know, you’re in the hole, and you’re not making any money. Like, why are you so positive?” Well, here’s a perfect opportunity to say, “Hey, the most significant thing in my life is this person called Jesus, and he gives me peace, and he helps me even in these more difficult seasons of life.” And, you know, I think that’s powerful.

Jeff Clark:
I love this example of just wherever you’re at, whether you’re leading a church, selling cars, whatever you’re doing to go fully after the places that God has put you and to really do it for the people that he’s put you in front of. It’s a powerful example for us to hear. So thanks, Pastor Rob, for coming on and sharing your wisdom with us today.

Rob Paterson:
Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate the time.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you, too, can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ.

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#20: Global Marketplace Multipliers

Jeff Clark:
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. My name is Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. Today, we’re gonna be joined by David Drury who works with Global Marketplace Multipliers, a new initiative that’s come out of Marketplace Multipliers in Wesleyan Church. He’s gonna talk about how “work as worship” has been part of his heartbeat for decades now, and the new initiative that he’s part of now living in Istanbul, doing this work and raising others up to do it as well. We’re joined now by David Drury. And David, I wanna go back 16 years, because my first interaction was when you were one of my pastors at College Wesleyan Church, and really you were part of the birth of this passion inside of me. And it started with, what was called at that point, “Sheep to Shepherd” in the whole Soul Shift series from you and Steve DeNeff’s book. So can you go back to that time and maybe even tell how did this whole concept of work as worship become such a major passion for you?

David Drury:
Yeah. I think that the main thing there is there’s a bit of a drift in western church culture towards the clergy, the pastors, the priests, whatever you wanna call them… the paid people that are a part of the kingdom of God being the center of kind of the activity. And the Sheep to Shepherd concept was just we aren’t intended to remain as sheep forever. Every disciple has a future of influencing others for Christ and really shepherding other people. It starts sometimes with just kids, but it really extends to anybody you have influence over.

So that’s really the fundamental call for every disciple is to move from just being a sheep to being a shepherd, which includes – for all of us – most of the time we spend is in our workplace, and we all can move from just being sheep that listen to a sermon on Sundays, to really shepherding those around us. And then our work becomes part of our worship in that way.

Jeff Clark:
I know I can take for granted having been inside a local church that really values this for 15 years. It’s intuitive to me, but I know it’s not for everybody. So fast forward 10 years or so, and we’re working together with Marketplace Multipliers. And I know you were on the ground floor and had a lot of vision for this and passion. And now there’s this new initiative with Global Marketplace Multipliers that’s come out of that in some way. So if you could, just take us through how this thread of passion for you went to Marketplace Multipliers first, and now is part of this new adventure that you’re on.
David Drury:
Yeah. And you know, it’s nothing new, but it sure feels new. Nothing new in the sense that, you know, Paul was a literal tentmaker. In fact, tentmaker became kind of a term for somebody that does a job, and does it well, but then also has ministry in their mind. But of course it feels new because again, in the world of missions, it’s similar to everything else in the Western church culture. We have thought of paid people, in this case, missionaries who raise funds from churches, as being the primary way that we go after the unreached around the world. And, we’re trying to upend that and say, “Hey, that’s one way to do it. It’s not the only way to do it.” And it’s possible that people, because of the global economy, because people are moving from country to country, because they get transferred to another place, because they do have a marketable skill in the global economy, or at least, you know, their career might not work in every country, but it certainly would work in some country. Or some people can just do their job anywhere, and they’re a digital nomad. And why not do that someplace strategic for the mission of God? And so we’re trying to kind of infuse that marketplace energy into the global context, and so Global Partners spun us off to do this as another option for people to get engaged globally if they really care about the unreached people groups around the world. And, you know, it’s not just something that somebody can give to or pray for. Man, their career might actually be the way God gets it done.

Jeff Clark:
Well, it’s interesting that we sit today and talk about this because you’re in Istanbul. This morning, I got an email update from you. Now I sit and I can look at you in a screen and it’s like we’re talking face to face. So everything you’re saying is even a living reality for me today in my communications, hearing what you’re doing across the world. So what opportunity are you seeing emerging now, especially you say for the unreached people groups of the world that maybe has never existed in the history of the world?

David Drury:
Yeah. I mean, things have changed, pretty dramatically. Like you say, you know, I mean, in some ways, I’m strategically positioned here to live in Istanbul. It’s kind of the center of the world. I actually did some research on this. There’s people that figured out that Istanbul, part of Turkey, is actually the land mass center of the world. It’s the place that’s closest to all of the land mass of the world. It’s a kinda weird detail. So it’s good for time zones. Like, I can meet with almost any time zone in the world other than Hawaii. So far, Hawaii is not working. I’d be fine to move to Hawaii too, by the way. But, really fine for me to meet with people all around the world from Asia and even North America, like I’m meeting with you now. My the workday is done here. Business hours are done, but I’m able to meet with you in your morning. But the world has shrunk. There’s a lot of people like that who could do their job anywhere or do it remotely, and then a lot of places are hiring people from other spaces. So there’s really lots more possibilities. And so the world has shrunk, but it’s also so in some ways, it’s getting there’s more opportunity. But in another way, things are getting worse. 4 in 10 people still live without access to the gospel. And just to put that into perspective, 1 in 4 people don’t have food security, so they’re not sure where their next nutritious meal’s coming from. 2 in 10 people don’t have access to clean water. Those are 2 huge things that a lot of people are working on in relief. A lot of those places that that’s actually happening, by the way… Those places have a ton of resources going to them to try and counter those problem. And then there’s a third one that a lot of tech people are working on, and that’s that 3 in 10 people don’t have access to the Internet. A lot of people are working on that. And then 4 in 10 people don’t have access to the gospel, which means they can knock on every door in their neighborhood and never find somebody that knows Jesus. They wouldn’t be able to find somebody that could disciple them. We’re trying to work on that problem, and there’s hardly any resources going to that problem. Hardly any people, even all of the people that are going and working in missions, people that are working in relief on those other problems… Almost none of that is happening in places where there’s not access to the gospel, including where I am right now. And so we need people to think about, boy, do what you do for the glory of God your career, but do it in a place that would be strategic for the mission of God. That’s the real message that we’re going at. That’s from a book I love to recommend called Gaining by Losing. We really need to be thinking about that. Anybody that’s thinking and praying and giving strategically about the mission of God around the world might need to also think about, boy, is your job actually a part of how God wants to solve some of these problems and change that gospel access problem worldwide?

Jeff Clark:
I’ve known you for so long at a heart level… You’re an activator. You activate people, you activate initiatives. So talk to the person who, as they’re listening to this, they have a heartbeat for an unreached place. They have skills that might be able to apply there. Speak from that role of activator. What would you activate in their lives that could actually connect those dots where they could take their skills in the workforce and be part of God’s mission in an unreached place?

David Drury:
Oh, that’s funny you say that. That’s actually my title now for my job is Activator. I don’t know if you even knew that, but they gave me that title. But I, so that apparently, that’s a good title for me. it’s also very vague. I like vague titles because then they can just tell me to do whatever. But, so I love seeing people just educate themselves along this front. I feel like some of this is just do some recon. Some people that are listening to this right now didn’t really know that 4 in 10 people, you’re talking literally billions of people, about 3,000,000,000 people that don’t have access to the gospel, they might not have known that 15 minutes ago. So if that’s the case, then it might be time to kind of research that a little bit. Go to the Joshua Project online. Just Google Joshua Project and missions or gospel access or whatever. The four in ten. These are things that you can just Google and learn about and find out who are those people groups, where are they located, how many people are being sent in order to reach them. All that stuff just grows our heart and that’s the most important step of all.

It means we’ll pray more. It means we’ll give so that it’ll happen, but it also means we might be able to say, like, boy, could I go? Of course, for a lot of people, that’s terrifying. Of course, it is. It’s problematic. It’s how would you do this? Yeah. It might be nice not to have to raise money, but it does mean that you’re living in another culture. It does mean that you’re having to learn all the adjustments I’ve been making here. That might be terrifying, but it it’s also an adventure. It’s something to say, man, maybe I’m giving my life to something that’s not just so I can maybe have a nice house and be able to maybe get a second home or have a boat or take nice vacations, but maybe I’m doing my career in order to do something nobody else is doing. And here’s the thing. You might think like, oh, I’m not prepared for that or equipped for that. But the reality is, if you know Jesus and you’ve known him for 5 years in the west, you know more than anybody in the neighborhood you’ll move to. You know, if I had been converted 5 years ago, I would know more than anyone in not only in my entire apartment here, not only my whole “Mahale”, they say here, (which means “the neighborhood”). I would know more than most of this whole city about Jesus. And it doesn’t take much knowledge. It just takes a little bit of experience. And if you’ve had an experience with God, he’s equipped you with it. It’s really just a matter of getting there.

So I suggest that people do a little research, grow their heart for it, come to our website to be able to learn more about Global Marketplace Multipliers. If they go to, GPonline.org/gmm, which stands for Global Marketplace Multipliers, they can sign up for a newsletter. They’re gonna hear about all this stuff, become more knowledgeable about it, and maybe we can help them find a job in another country at some strategic point. But it takes a lot of preparation to get there. We do some things to prepare people and train them, and then keep them connected afterwards so they don’t get lonely in the task.

Jeff Clark:
Well, we will link to that in the show notes and challenge people to do this, educate themselves, learn, because there are a lot of people who listen to this who have a heartbeat for work as worship, but maybe they’ll grow in their heart for the lost people, the unreached people groups of the world. So thanks, David, so much for embodying this work, actually doing it, but also for your passion in activating the gospel going to new places through the marketplace.

David Drury:
Well, it’s a real privilege to be able to talk about it. I mean, in the end, know, we don’t wanna push anybody to do this, but we do wanna help people dream about it. There are a lot of people out there that maybe they thought about, maybe I would like to live and work abroad at some point, or maybe they’re just like, boy, I’m really engaged with my church. I love what I’m doing, but I really feel like I could be doing so much more. But I don’t wanna not do my work. It’s my career is my calling. I feel like the thing I do is my job, and they haven’t found a way to do that and have it make a difference. I tell you what, if they could do their job in some of these places with unreached people groups, man alive, the impact they could have could be generational for those people. You could be the start of a whole movement of disciple-makers in a place where there are no disciple-makers. That is the kind of thing that’s a life legacy that is kind of almost immeasurable for eternity.

Jeff Clark:
Well, we’ll be praying and hoping for the people who are listening that God will stir their hearts, and maybe you’ll have more people engage in this mission.

David Drury:
Wonderful. It all starts just with taking your work seriously where you live now. That’s certainly the start of it. And over time, though, it can be pretty crazy.

Jeff Clark:
Thanks so much, David.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you, too, can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ.

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#19: Marketplace Multipliers Certificate

Jeff Clark:
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. My name is Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. Today, we’re gonna be joined by Dr.an Eric Ireland. He serves as the Associate Vice President of Kingswood Extended, where they’ve developed a Marketplace Multiplier Certificate. And this is very exciting because so often we hear of people who have a heartbeat to do this work of marketplace multiplication, but they struggle with the next steps of what it means to actually steward influence for Christ. And they’ve developed a certificate that’s available to anybody who wants to grow in knowledge and insight in what that means. You’ll hear more from Dr. Ireland about that, but you can right now go to Kingswood.edu/ register to find out more. We’re joined now by Dr. Eric Ireland. And, Dr. Ireland, why don’t you just start by sharing your heartbeat for marketplace multipliers?

Eric Ireland:
I’m really excited for this movement across the Wesleyan denomination and far beyond, I’m sure, because for too long we have thought about ministry as something done by clergy people. This is not a problem just for us and our tribe or the evangelical church or the North American church. This is a problem for Catholics and Episcopalians and all these groups worldwide. And I think it’s high time that the entirety of the kingdom of God get involved in ministry.

Jeff Clark:
Now you play a unique role in that you’re in a higher education context. So what is the role of higher education in solving this?

Eric Ireland:
Yeah. I think Christian higher education in particular has a deep history, and a rich history along this idea. Of course, long before the thought or the term marketplace multipliers was coined, for a 100-150 years in North America in particular, Christian higher education has thought of itself as a launching pad for ministers and especially in liberal arts institutions, they’ve got departments for English and for business and for medicine. They’re not launching clergy people only.

They have a division for religion, but they’re launching people into ministry in all of the ways that lay and clergy people can be involved in ministry. Of course, that drifts, I think, and sometimes Christian higher ed in particular is going to suffer from this where we don’t think of ourselves as discipleship opportunities and discipleship boot camps. I think that’s really the sweet spot. If Christian higher ed realizes the incredibly rich environments they provide through their faculty, through extracurricular environments, through residential experiences, through a leadership development of student, student leaders. These are sanctifying contexts. That’s a term that Dr. Lennox, our president, coined several years ago, I think even before he was our president. He’s been in Christian higher ed for decades, and he was observing that happen in his ministry, how important it is for our schools to think of themselves as discipleship for marketplace multiplication.

Jeff Clark:
And it’s super fun sitting in this role to see how that’s popping up in different ways at different places. So, I know I coach basketball, and we talk about “I am 3^rd” and how that comes to life. At Indiana Wesleyan, they use the word world changers. At Houghton University, there’s some things popping up, and it’s really coming to life in different ways. And at Kingswood, you guys have very intentionally built a certificate. Can you talk a little bit about what you’ve built, how it works and how it can benefit people?

Eric Ireland:
Yeah. Kingswood is weird among our Wesleyan Higher Educational Institutions, and across other higher ed in North America. It’s a bible college and so we’ve traditionally thought of ourselves as pumping out ministers and ministers only. But there’s a rich heritage among faculty in our schools and those we work with across North America because our school can be involved and is involved in lay preparation for the ministry as well. And so the way we have recently conceptualized that is through a Marketplace Multiplier Certificate. It is studied not for a degree, they’re not 3 credit courses, they are closer to 1 or 1.5 if you’re really to analyze all the work done, but we have 5 courses in a Marketplace Multiplication Certificate that prepares anybody who’s at home discipling their family, who’s at work discipling their boss, their subordinates, or their peers, or coworkers, or the CEO, or the CFO running an organization, or the doctor running a dentistry office who realizes that they are stewarding a congregation of sorts where they are. Such people would be really well served by studying in these 5 courses of the Marketplace Multiplication Certificate.

Jeff Clark:
I love the heartbeat of what you’re talking about because what we run up against so much is Christians who get a a spark in their heart for this, and they’re ready to go, but they don’t know how to implement it. They don’t have a depth of knowledge on what it looks like, and you’re trying to provide for that specifically. So why don’t you talk a little bit about anybody can sign up for this. When they do, what will they get on the other side?

Eric Ireland:
We even find, even in a Christian discipling environment like Wesleyan Higher Education, you may still need this kind of help because you’ve probably been taught by excellent believers of deep faith what it means to study biology, for instance, but you still might not know what that means to disciple as you are being an MD. Right? These are skills that you need to pick up even if you have a Christian worldview. You still need to be discipled on how to disciple. So that’s what we’ve done. The courses, they start off with thinking about “Work in the Bible”. That’s the first title. I think it’s important that the marketplace multiplier realize that, yes, the curse has touched the work you do. In particular, in the garden and the condemnation, the curse that comes to Adam is that there is now toil and work. We do it, but it’s rough, and we definitely feel that. Lots of us, when we get up with the alarm and think, I’ve got to go to the office. Work has become a 4-letter word, but it is a means by which God intends to redeem the world. It’s one of them. And so, “Work in the Bible” just helps a person think through that whole thing, how God redeems work. It is not a 4-letter word. It is a place where we can find joy and meaning and certainly ministry.

Of course,the role of leadership is super important for every Christian leader and disciple maker. So, we have a course on what it is to “Lead as a Christian”. And then I think the other one that I’m most excited about is the “Models of Marketplace Multiplication” course. It’s usually the last one a person will take, and it helps a person think. When I was introduced to this idea, I thought, wow. There’s such promise for the Christian business owner or CEO who gets to call the shots and say, “You know what? We’re gonna close on a Sunday.” Right? There are all these ideas we have about what makes a business Christian. They keep the Sabbath or they donate a tenth of their profits somewhere. But what it means to disciple in the marketplace for most of us is using the influence we have as a parent, as an employee, as a coworker, and the Models of Marketplace Ministry course helps a person think far beyond the models that come to mind, and I think it really helps a person break outside of the box to think through and discuss those models with each other.

Jeff Clark:
What you’re saying so closely matches the heartbeat of this movement because this isn’t for the elite Christian who leads many people from on stage. All of us have opportunity to influence others for Christ. But many of us don’t know how. We have a passion for it, but since we don’t have a model for it, it can be awkward. We can avoid it, but you guys are providing a practical way for people to go deeper. So as you’re saying, this is for any Christian who has this heartbeat. So why don’t you finish by just telling us… Let’s say someone’s listened to this. They have a spark now. They’re saying, “I’m interested. I wanna know more.” Where should they go to sign up? What link would you send them to so they could find their way to this certificate?

Eric Ireland:
This certificate and our other noncredit offerings are available by going to Kingswood.edu/register. Our whole catalog of courses are then available, and you can find the course that matches you. Self-paced courses can be started anytime by anybody, so these courses are always available.

Jeff Clark:
Well, Dr. Ireland, thanks so much not only for coming on, but also for providing this resource and making it available for so many who have a heartbeat for this and just have practical tools to grow in depth and knowledge, and then hopefully implement it in meaningful ways where there’s deeper influence for Christ in the places where they live every single day.

Eric Ireland:

It’s been a joy. Thank you.

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#18: Facing Rejection In The Marketplace

Jeff Clark:
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. My name is Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. Today, we’re gonna be joined by pastor Amanda Oicle from Public Church in Boston, and we’re gonna hear a story that is a little bit different. It starts out inspiring with her feeling called to pastor a church in Boston and do it through the marketplace, but one where she’s faced extreme resistance and then ultimately rejection for the thing that God had put in her heart. We’re just super grateful for how transparent and authentic she was in sharing her story. And I know for many people, they’re gonna be encouraged and inspired by her faithfulness, but also just the way in which she continues to have hope and faith in Jesus Christ as she pursues the mission.

We’re joined now by Pastor Amanda Oicle from Public Church in Boston. Pastor Amanda, could you just start by sharing the journey to planting a church in Boston?

Amanda Oicle:
Sure. So I became a Christian at 18. Shortly after that, God spoke to me about pastoral ministry, but I didn’t believe He was talking to me. And then, just through some life circumstances, delayed my saying yes to that leading. And then when I was 27, God poked me again and said, “Hey. Why don’t you become a pastor? Why don’t you serve me full time?” And I was just like, “Oh, okay.” And then shortly after that, I had a dream of my husband and I looking for actually a storefront to start a church in. And so I was like, “Oh, I guess I’m called to church planting!”

And I was actually a part of a church plant at the time, so that helped me just understand the context of what it meant to be a church planter. Well, so I thought. And so I, yeah, started doing coursework, working towards ordination in the Wesleyan church. And I started at home just online, and then God led my family and I to relocate to Kingswood University, which had many benefits, one of those being that I got to meet Pastor Brandon Peterson, who was just at the school doing a chapel service, but just felt like a connection to him and Jen, right away.

And then after I graduated, I was asked to go to Ontario to do kinda like a restart out of a church there in Ontario. So I knew I needed a coach, that I would need some help. So I reached out to Brandon, and he said, “Well, hey. I’m doing this course with another pastor named Melinda Priest. Would you like to join us in it?” And I said, “Sure!” So I did this course with them for 8-9 months, and then actually ended up resigning from my position in Ontario. And shortly after that, Melinda invited me to Boston, and that’s how I got here.

Jeff Clark:
I think anyone listening sees a pattern of you being willing to say yes. And, obviously, if you’re gonna plant a church in Boston, you’re willing to go for it. So fast forward now to this stirring in your heart for marketplace ministry and what you guys decided to do.

Amanda Oicle:
Yeah. So shortly after coming here and just dreaming about what Public Church would be, I knew that we weren’t necessarily gonna follow, like, a traditional church path. And so just working with Melinda and Brandon and just dreaming about what our space could be, this concept of coffee just kept coming up.

And even actually when I was still back at Kingswood, I wrote up a church planting plan to use a coffee shop as the space to gather in. But then as we were talking about it, I was like, I don’t think we’re just supposed to meet in a coffee shop. I think we’re actually supposed to start a coffee shop. And a lot of that, you know, is summarized in our mission, which is to create community connection, where all people are seen and known by the transforming love of Christ for the renewal of the city. And so it just so happened that, yeah, actually starting a coffee shop in the neighborhood of Jamaica Plain would allow us to pilot our business, and meet a tangible need. There was no good coffee shops where Awaken City Church is. So, we actually started with a coffee cart, and then that developed into a permanent brick and mortar spot just right next door to Awaken City Church. And so, yeah, our vision of creating proximity spaces or third spaces, whichever language you’re more familiar with, to be close to those who feel far from Jesus actually came to be. And the vision was to also use the businesses – because we wanted, and still do, but especially then we wanted to have multiple businesses eventually throughout the city. And then, Public Church is a micro church network, so the plan was that the churches would meet in the business spaces.

Jeff Clark:
And knowing your heart even for a little bit, your heart is for the people, and you’re trying to provide a good, and create community, but it’s not received maybe the way that we would hope this story would go. You have a vision. You go for it. You’re trying to give things away to the community. Just walk us through what happened as you tried to bring this business to life.

Amanda Oicle:
Yeah. Sure. So, I mean, we knew, especially just living in our context for as long as we have, and I’m from a very similar city back in Canada called Halifax. So very similar liberal leaning. And so we knew that there would be some opposition to Christians owning a business, and in particular in the neighborhood that we started because there’s evidence for it. But, you know, we felt like this was the way God was leading us, so we moved forward. But part of getting the space ready was that we had to rezone or ask for a variance of use for the building. And so even before construction started, the neighbors knew who we were and what we were gonna do, and, we were very nervous. We honestly expected that they would vote negatively, that they would not want us. And surprisingly, they voted in the affirmative. We had a unanimous yes. And so we were able to, yeah, get the Change of Use, and so we move forward with construction. But shortly after that, there was a couple of articles that were written about us, tying us to some quotes that weren’t even connected to the Wesleyan denomination. And that stirred a little bit of questions in the neighborhood, and, we had a couple people ask us, and we had great conversations.

And then, yeah, we did renovations for about a year. So for a year, the community knew we were coming, but we didn’t hear much. And then, shortly after we opened, there was a call via flyers posted around the neighborhood for the neighborhood to boycott us, saying that the Wesleyan church, yeah, you know, are fascists, bigots, anti-LGTBQ, anti -trans, and just, you know, really started some narratives in the neighborhood that unless people were like us and, you know, thought exactly how we did and believed how we did, that they wouldn’t be welcome in the coffee shop. And so, you know, we refuted that. We said that’s not the case. All people are welcome here.

And then, the person who put up the flyers, we had already been open 2 months, and on our grand opening, she organized protest against us. So during our operating hours, there was probably throughout the day about 10-15 people outside just protesting the shop, and were kinda yelling at customers as they came in and out. And at one point, came in the shop and was yelling at us. And, yeah, unfortunately we had to ask them to leave, and that day was over. And as the word tells us, God’s mercy is new every day. So we really questioned even at that point, you know, should we keep going? But we decided to keep going.

And for, you know, the next couple of months, it was kind of business as usual, but we noticed our trends were not in line with other coffee shops. I have a couple of friends who have started and operate coffee shops and talk to them. And, I mean, we didn’t expect to be, like, completely sustainable for a little while, but we saw a significant drop in our sales after that protest. And we’d have people come in and they would say,
“Oh, this space is so nice. Thank you for coming in the neighborhood. Your coffee’s so good. We’re gonna go tell all our friends. We’ll be here all the time.” And then they would leave and never come back. So eventually we realized this isn’t a coincidence. They would go tell their friends, and then their friends would be like, “Well, don’t you know?” And then they, you know, wouldn’t come back. So, yeah, so we kept going. And then there was a particular group in June that there was a a rumor going around on Facebook that the coffee shop was a front for conversion therapy. And so there was a particular group in the neighborhood that didn’t like that and started protesting us as well. So we ended up closing the beginning of August.

So from like mid-August till we closed, they protested us 3 times. And then on our final Saturday, they planned a a celebration/ protest for us, and we just decided not to open that day and move on. So, yeah. So what was a major dream for us and what we saw as an answer to prayer, just the way that we fundraised and the money came in. We wanted to kind of fight and keep going as long as we could. But like I got to the point where I just didn’t feel peace anymore working there and stayed probably too long even after feeling that way. Just, you know, hoping that something would turn the tide. But I stopped working in the shop the middle of June, and then my husband stayed until, like I said, the early August. And then we decided to close the doors to the public, which was very disappointing, very sad. But we felt like we had been obedient along the way and we did see God move and work in that space.

There is a family – that is a mom, 2 children, and her mom – have now been baptized and rededicated their life to Jesus because one day she came into a coffee shop. So what we feel like is we presented the gospel, and some people accepted it, but many have rejected it. Yeah, that’s where we find ourselves.

Jeff Clark:
I’d love to hear, to go a little deeper with you because what you want the stories to always be is you follow God’s leading, and everything explodes. But I heard recently, someone I really respect talking about in leadership, when they look at Jesus, maybe the hardest thing he had to go through on the cross was being misunderstood. And how hard it is when you’re in a position of spiritual leadership, when whoever it is you’re trying to serve and love doesn’t understand what you’re doing. So just talk to others who are in a tough spot of ministry right now about the journey you’ve been through personally of just doing something with a sincere heart, being misunderstood and then it not going the way you were hoping that it would go. What have you learned, and how would you encourage others who either are or may soon be in a position like you’re in?

Amanda Oicle:
Yeah, those are big questions. And, honestly, ones I’m still processing. Being here in Boston, it really felt like coming home to me because, like I mentioned, the culture here is very similar to where I grew up, or I lived until, you know, saying yes to Jesus and going wherever you told me to go. So it was easy coming here. I think some people, like, on the outside looking in would be like, “Wow, you should never go there. It’s a really hard place.” Like, you know, we hear some different stats, but 4-8% of the population are evangelical Protestants, so there’s a significant, Catholic population, but there are a lot of people here who have moved here specifically to get away from their past. And often that’s connected to Christianity.

So there are people here who are quite hostile towards the gospel. And so we thought creating this space would be kind of neutral ground for people, so that they could reconnect with, you know, Christians and maybe re-explore faith or, you know, and even some for the first time. So, yes, we knew it was gonna be hard, but, like, you hear that anything is possible with God, you know? And, that’s absolutely true. But what does it mean when the thing you try – that you feel led by God to do – fails.

So, yeah, I mean, the questions I’ve asked God are obviously, “Why?”, “What’s next?”, “What did I do wrong?” So I’ll go backwards. Like, I don’t sense that we did anything wrong. What’s next? I’m a marketplace church planter. Like, that’s who I am. So I wanna try again. But I’m trying to figure out if that’s here in Boston or somewhere else. I want it to be Boston, but there’s just some there’s hesitation to try something, you know, even though it’s a different part of the city, different neighborhood. One would assume that the same thing’s gonna happen. Now it might not. And I’m enough of an optimist to, like, wanna give people the benefit of the doubt and try again. So we’re trying to figure that out and why did it not work? I think it did work. Like I say, it failed because it’s no longer operating, But I was just actually sharing this with some friends the other day. Like, I kinda feel like what we needed to do in that space happened. We completed the task. And I don’t know what the outcome is necessarily for it, but I said, I do know we presented the gospel and some accepted and some rejected, and that’s what we’re called to do. It’s really easy to blame ourselves, but I actually was listening to a podcast once where a church planter had to close his church, and he said, “We give God the glory, we give him praise when things go well, and when they don’t, we blame ourselves. But God’s the same God, you know? He’s still in control. And, yeah, I think planted many seeds. I think God will water them, and there will be fruit. And again, I don’t know how or when or why, but I think, I just trust God with the outcome. You know? We’ve tried to be faithful, but we’re letting him be the one who brings the fruit.

Jeff Clark:
Well, man, I know you’re inspiring me and many who are listening to this by your faithfulness and hope. And I know also that, from conversations, there’s been opportunities for you to respond in many different ways, and you’ve chosen to respond with love and with grace no matter how things went from from outsiders. So, maybe just finish with – for those who are listening, how can they specifically pray for you? How can they pray for the people in your area? And then if they wanna reach out and connect in some way to your church, what would be the pathway for them to do that?

Amanda Oicle:
Sure. Yeah. So prayer. Like I mentioned, it’s hard to picture Public Church moving forward without the marketplace piece to it, the vision that we had for businesses. We’re continuing to meet and gather as a church, but I am in a discernment time. And so prayer just for wisdom and direction would be fantastic to know… I don’t wanna make any decisions based off of fear, but like, we have a lot more wisdom now about Boston than we did, you know, the first time around. So I wanna be faithful with, obviously, God’s resources and be obedient. Like, that’s what I ultimately want at the end of the day.

And, you know, we are a little angry. We’re a little hurt. So healing, prayers for healing, and I ultimately just want to continue to be obedient to God. And if people wanna contact us, we are on social media as Public Church Boston, and also still as Public Coffee Boston. And so, yeah, DM there or email me at amanda@publicchurchboston.com.

Jeff Clark:
Well, Amanda, thank you for sharing with such authenticity and just a real story of someone who’s pursuing marketplace ministry on the front lines. I know many people will be inspired and benefit from how you’ve taught us and what we’re learning through your example. So we really appreciate it, and thanks so much for coming on.

Amanda Oicle:
Thank you for having me.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you, too, can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ.

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#17: Preparing Students To Be Multipliers

Jeff Clark:
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. My name is Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. Today, we’re joined by Dr. Wayne Lewis, the president of Houghton University. You’re gonna hear about his passion for marketplace multipliers and how it’s embedded in everything they do at Houghton. In this past year, I got to feel firsthand how this was embedded throughout the university as Houghton’s Athletic Department and our Athletic Department did a season-long prayer initiative. And in every conversation, you could just see how prayer was the driving foundation of everything they did in athletics. So I think you’re really gonna enjoy hearing his passion today. We’re joined now by President Wayne Lewis.

President Lewis, I would love to just hear your heartbeat for marketplace multipliers. It’s something that I know, knowing you, is close to why you’re in Christian Higher Ed. But why don’t you just share with the audience why this means so much to you?

Wayne Lewis:
Well, thanks for inviting me, Jeff. I’m happy to be here for the conversation. You know, as I think about the starting place for me, and where the light bulb came on more than anything… It was, maybe about 15 years ago. I was part of a men’s Bible study. For me, side note, men’s Bible studies have been one of the most formative pieces of my own development. But this group of guys who I did life with and stay connected with, we picked different books that we would go through, and we got to one particular month, we chose, (Francis) Chan’s, “Multiply”.

And that book was a game changer for me, because up to that point, you know, there’s nothing new here for me. I understood the call of Christ. I understood that we were called to live as disciples and make disciples, but I don’t know that it had ever been really on the front burner for me. I think my own living, my own behavior, my own ministry and work within the church had been primary for me. And that time together over that book, in lots of ways, convicted me. And made me realize that if I’m not putting on the front burner, the imperative of making disciples… If I’m not making more disciples, then I’m falling short of the gospel mandate.

Jeff Clark:
It’s amazing to hear you say that because I think so often as we do this work, that’s what we hear. People that are right where you were at. Their faith informs the way they act, and their ethics, but anything else is an add on. It’s not the primary driver of what they do. So I’d be curious, what did you see in that book that made the light bulbs come on, and what changed for you after that? Because I know so many people resonate with that spot that you were in.

Wayne Lewis:
You know, again, I don’t know that there was any magical phrase or magical chapter. I think it was, more than anything, the opportunity for this group of people to come together and wrestle with for a month’s time, what it looked like to be faithful to the gospel call to make disciples versus overlook it, or think of it as a small part of what we do and who we are. So now take that understanding, fast forward 15 years, and I’m president of a Christian University, which as I think about that group of guys, they would have been as shocked as anybody to see that coming. But that burn, that desire in my heart is still there, not just for me, but the imperative to make sure we’re doing everything in our power and using all our resources to equip our students to be able to go into their lives – most of whom are not going into ordained ministry. So going into, you know, medicine, or teaching, or music, or the legal field and make disciples of men and women, understanding that they’re gonna have greater opportunities to make disciples and to spread the gospel than people who are, in fact, ordained and working in the church in a full time capacity.

Jeff Clark:
And I know that every time that I’ve talked with you, your passion for this burns bright. I mean, it is contagious. So I’m curious how you carry that into your role. Because you’re looking over an entire university, and you’re trying to embed that in every discipline, every area of study. So how do you steward that passion so it gets infused throughout your campus?

Wayne Lewis:
Yeah. I think for me, it’s a question of priorities. And the imperative of discipling young people and equipping them to make disciples is not one of my priorities. As a Christian college president, it is my primary priority. There are lots of places where young people can go to get a great education. You don’t need to go to a Christ-centered institution to get the skills and knowledge to be a physician or an attorney or a teacher. You can get those certifications, you can get that knowledge anywhere. And to be frank, if there were no more Houghton University tomorrow, there wouldn’t be any lapse in the number of people who are becoming teachers or doctors or lawyers. Where the hole would be felt if there were no more Houghton University tomorrow is there’d be one less institution completely sold out to discipling young people and equipping them to make disciples.

So the disciple-equipping and disciple-making work of Houghton University is not an add on. It’s not secondary. It’s not one of many priorities that we’re balancing. It is first and foremost what we exist for. Everything else comes second.

Jeff Clark:
I know for me, as my kids age and I start to project what will happen when they leave the house, there’s something there that stirs my heart. When I think, “Where do I want my children to end up?” It’s in a place like you’re talking about. So maybe talk to that parent right now who, maybe they’ve never even considered Christian higher education because they’ve never heard this vision. Oh, my kid might wanna be a nurse, so all I do is look at all nursing schools and compare them. But you’re saying, “No, there’s something different about our heartbeat that might compel you to come here.” What would you say to that parent to draw them to a place, your place or a place like Houghton, where disciple-making is primary and it is a motivating passion for the people who are teaching the students?

Wayne Lewis:
Oh, great question, because I think there are many parents, many Christian parents, who either have not had a Christian college experience or they’re not personally familiar or acquainted with a Christian college and might not understand what we do. You know, for an institution that takes its Christ centered identity seriously, they’re using an approach that is different than what I call an “Add Chapel And Stir” approach, which is basically where you have the same coursework and the same curriculum, same experiences you would have at a state or secular institution, but you just add in a requirement that you go to chapel once a week. That’s not who we are. Neither are we an institution – and you’re seeing this more and more. Institutions describe themselves as a Christian heritage institution, meaning they were founded by the church or founded by a denomination, and it’s an important part of their background. That’s not who we are either. Yes, we were founded by the Wesleyan Methodist Connection, and it’s important part of our background, but it’s an important part of every day that we exist as well. So for us, when we say we’re Christ-centered, we mean everything we do. Our curriculum, our teaching, our athletic program, the way we steward our resources, the way we ask donors to come in support of the work that God is doing on campus. That everything, every aspect points toward the gospel message. And that everything we do, every policy, every practice is subject to the inspection and correction of the word of God.

That’s what it means for us to be a Christ-centered institution. So young people who are interested in becoming a physicist or a physician or a musician or a teacher, they don’t have to choose between an institution where they’re gonna get an exceptional academic experience or go somewhere where their faith is gonna be nurtured and they’re going to be discipled. They don’t have to choose between the two because there are institutions like Houghton, like our five institutions across the Wesleyan Church that are intentional, Christ-centered institutions, where we fully integrate who we are as believers in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and providing an academically excellent experience for our kids.

Jeff Clark:
And I can speak firsthand, being great friends with your Athletic Director, Matt Webb, your basketball coach, Jeremy Bialek. The people I know there embody this, and they are passionate about this. So thanks for the work that you’re doing to equip and prepare students to become that in the world, and thanks for joining us today.

Wayne Lewis:
Thanks for inviting me, Jeff.

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you, too, can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ.

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#16: Marketplace Multipliers Story

Jeff Clark:
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. My name is Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. Today we’re gonna be joined by Pastor Suk May Yei who is an ordained pastor of The Wesleyan Church and currently serves as the Associate Pastor of Eastern Hills Church in Buffalo, New York. But her journey started in a different place. She gave her to Christ in New York City while she was a senior banker, and immediately was discipled at her church to be an “undercover minister”. So we’ll hear from her about how she lived that out in her marketplace context, but then how she transitioned to be a pastor, and now trains others to do that as well.

We’re joined now by Pastor Suk May, and Pastor, I’m so excited for our listeners to hear your journey. Can you just take us back briefly through your testimony and how you ended up where you’re at right now.

Suk May Yei:
Oh, it’s wonderful. It’s all God’s call, and what I’m doing now is Pastor of Discipleship and Connections. And my gratefulness to the Lord is that I thank him for bringing me from Asia to America and then transforming me from a banker to a full-time pastor. So it all started from Him. And the Marketplace Multipliers movement, to me is, I did it when I was in banking, and now it still happens even though I’m called out of banking and have become a full-time minister.

Jeff Clark:
I loved when we were talking earlier, you were talking about when you were a banker, you used the language an “undercover minister”. Can you talk more about how you did that when you were in the banking world, and what that looked like?

Suk May Yei:
Oh yes. Absolutely. Everything to me is listening to God’s call, and the Holy Spirit leads me, and I just follow. It all started when I became a Christian in New York City while I was still in the financial world. The Lord led me to a multi-ethnic church, and what they would do is whenever they had a new convert, they would place them into a system to disciple them as an undercover minister in the marketplace. And the church defined marketplace as everywhere. So with this kind of training, it became our DNA and lifestyle to very intentionally live our faith wherever we are, and that would draw people’s attention through conversational evangelism. After that we’d put them in the same system, scripture based, Spirit led to build a lifestyle to do the same, out of love for God, not out of duty.

In the evangelism part, it happened once I experienced God so much, and love Him so much, and cannot stand that anyone would perish, that became I cannot stop the urge to tell people about Jesus’ story. That means evangelism, as this is everywhere, evangelism can happen anywhere, anytime, any moment, whether it’s planned or spontaneous. However God leads. On the street, at the store, at the airport, in the hospital, on public transpiration, you name it… When we evangelize it’s because we just wanna make the most out of opportunities, and we have freedom to do that in this country, so what I need is just the full gospel and my own story in mind, and then relate it to Scripture.

That was the evangelism part, and the other part mainly happened in the office.
The long-term part being salt and light to win friends and influence people for Jesus. So what I’d do in my daily life, just being very intentionally and naturally showing what Jesus would do in all circumstances and all places. In particular in a workplace that evangelism is considered not appropriate. Back then when I was in banking, it was already not appropriate, and I think right now it’s much worse. And what I can say with one statement is when I live a life like this, God will make it contagious. That means I must lean on the Holy Spirit, how the Holy Spirit leads me, and pay attention to the open doors, plus constantly draw wisdom from the Lord, and practice “as shrewd as snakes, and as innocent as doves” at all times. So, for an example, always in my conversation I would include scripture without mentioning it was scripture. And also a lot of times in office areas there were lottos and games that weren’t pleasing to God, and what I would say to them was, “Ya’ know what, my God does not like this.” And they would leave me alone because they know my faith. Another thing I would always do is not participate in gossip or be a conduit of gossip. The way I could do this and not make people uncomfortable, I would say, “I love building people up but not putting people down. If you don’t have anything good to say about your teammate or coworker, you can please save your conversation now.” And at all times, I practiced giving thanks in all circumstances, and in all decision making that no matter what, I stayed calm, still, focused in the power of Jesus. Major on the majors, follow Biblical values and fix our eyes on Jesus, I say, “No matter what”.

Even as we went through September 11, 2001, I was living like this, drawing people’s attention naturally not with pretense. So the result of this is I live out my life with Jesus’ light, and that makes it contagious. Outwardly, obviously I’m countercultural, but I have posture. When people see that I have the firmness of not being ashamed of my faith, but come from a meek tone, not an arrogant tone, they start wondering. So no matter
positively or negatively, they are wondering, and that will lead to conversation. And I’ve seen enough of this daily life and conversation, I can see that workers and people around me start applying what I do into their daily life and their work time and they’re not even aware of it. And when some of them show their craving to pursue Christ more, I would very carefully guide them to come to my church and I could talk to them more over there, when I was still a lay leader. Or I would point them to churches or groups closer to where they live so they could continue to grow there. But every day they see me in the office doing this. I see this isn’t me, it’s God. I see great impact on the Kingdom, and that inwardly one thing that’s crucial is I apply a lot of Scripture. I trust in the Lord, or when the enemy is hungry, feed them and that heaps burning coals on their heads. All the time, be joyous always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances. And one crucial one is found in the book of Hebrews. When you’re facing injustice – and it may not be to me, but I just see it… If my staff faces that, too, I would guide and encourage them to do this so that they can grow, too. So when all this becomes part of daily life and my spiritual muscle becomes stronger, it actually is growth for me.

Jeff Clark:
If I could just point out how incredible it is that you become a believer in New York City, and immediately you’re in a church where you’re being disciple to do this work. So it didn’t happen by accident. There was someone who was training you to do this and saying, “This is what it looks like.” And all of a sudden you start to have a comprehensive vision of how is scripture applied to work, how is prayer applied to work, how does Christ’s life come alive inside of me as I’m an undercover minister. It’s really incredible to see this growth. So what did it look like for you to then transition from that into the church where you’re now doing this for other people in the way you were discipled to do this yourself

Suk May Yei:
That’s the amazing part, because that inner growth was already contagious when I was a lay leader church. It was contagious to other congregants. And now, what God calls me to do… I say, “God, you always have humorous angle. I love you.” What He calls me to do now is to make disciples, and to disciple people the way I was discipled and teach them to do what I do in my personal life and how I did it in the marketplace. So therefore it’s already built in and part of my daily life. I’m just doing the same thing, I just don’t have to go to the office or the marketplace or work. I’m teaching people to work this way and build their lifestyle this way. And also right now, because I know in the marketplace the inappropriateness of talking about Jesus is getting more, I can see the foundation I built and am now building into the people emerging into a format that can even survive under persecution, which is what the world and the country is going to need.

Jeff Clark:
As you pastor your people, you did the work yourself as an undercover minister in the banking world, and now you’re the pastor doing the same thing. As you talk to other pastors who are wanting to do this work, what’s the greatest strategy you have to disciple your people in this way?

Suk May Yei:
I just let people know, let our leadership know, let our district know that I am doing discipleship in this way. And they know that I pray, and then God says, “This is the person” because there are many people out there who can disciple them, but God says, “This is the person”, then I approach the person and they have been praying already! Then we start. We just start a system of building a lifestyle that is wholistically Christlike, and then love the Lord, love His Word and follow His commands. And then from there, after that, there’s advanced training for them that’s all related to life, scriptural based, not just telling them what to do, but showing them what I do and doing it together with them so they can experience God during their discipleship process. And then when they go into the marketplace, it very naturally comes out because through each topic that we talk about, (identity, fellowship, church, scripture, etc.), discipleship is not anything unusual. It’s something they really can know how to live it out.

So that’s the strategy that when they’re being discipled, they’re already doing that. They have the freewill not to do it. Even though they’re equipped, they can just be a good Christian and all that. But that is the strategy, that there’s a specific pathway that we are following to guide people to relate scripture to life, relate their life back to their salvation, and everything is related to God. God is not separate from our life, God is not storybook, God is not like what the world says. And they see it right away, and they become passionate about that. So that is the strategy and the excitement becomes contagious again. As I say, I live out this way naturally because God loves me so much, and it becomes contagious. And I’ve seen some of the disciples already in the business… In the spa business, in the laundry business where they put scripture and the customers see it and say, “How is your business so peaceful?” and they think they’re doing New Age, but the disciple says, “No. I do Jesus. I believe in Jesus.” They live a life of love, and this is the strategy to follow God’s lead.

Jeff Clark:
I love the passion you speak with. And It’s obvious why you’re so contagious, to see the way as you’ve pursued God, this has happened in your life! And then there’s this overflow and multiplication into others. So if you could finish by talking about the Groundswell curriculum, I know this is helping others do this as well. Could you share a little bit about how that’s being utilized and why it might be useful for those listening to look at this curriculum as well

Suk May Yei:
The Starter Kit is very exciting for me because we already have a system to build disciples. And then when the Marketplace Multipliers Starter Kits come in, I see they highlight the scripture in the curriculum, the Holy Spirit is the teacher, and also they talk about live the mission, abide in Christ, build relationships and make disciples. This is exactly how they supplement each other. The material supplements the pathway, and the pathway supplements the marketplace multiplier. So it is very exciting, and also the kit includes coaching and more tools with a foundation based on God’s Word, that it’s not the doing, it’s the being with God. That’s advanced training that can happen everywhere, and it’s perfect timing because everywhere is going more in the direction of persecution. So that’s why I’m so excited about this. God always has perfect timing, and I praise Him for it.

Jeff Clark:
I know the dream of those who are part of the Marketplace Multipliers movement is that there would be hundreds and hundreds with your level of passion and expertise in this area and hopefully the Groundswell Starter Kit will move people that direction. I know people can find it at www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Suk May, thank you so much for coming and sharing your passion and your journey to equip us to be more effective in being undercover ministers in whatever we do!

Carrie Whitcher:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast and share with others who may benefit. And remember, you, too, can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ.

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#15: Marketplace Ministry and Chapter Development

Carrie Whitcher
Hi everyone. My name is Carrie Whitcher, and you, too, can be a marketplace multiplier, because marketplace multipliers equip all Christians to influence their workplace and integrate their faith by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are!

Jeff Clark
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers Podcast. I’m Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan. Today, we’re going to be joined by Pastor Michael Rogalski, the Founding and Lead Pastor of LifePoint Church in Waldorf, Maryland, and his Vice Chair, Earl McJett, who serves in the marketplace as a senior information analyst in a financial regulatory agency. We’re going to be talking today about pastoring your church into marketplace ministry, and what it looks like to develop a chapter of marketplace multipliers. And Pastor, I want to start with you, because there’s been this movement in your church over time toward marketplace ministry. Could you just tell us the story briefly of how you got to this point?

Michael Rogalski
Man, awesome. Thanks for having us, Jeff! This is a joy to talk about this, and it is a passion of mine and of ours. And you know, we’ve just been praying and asking the Lord for years -How do we help make his last words our first priority. From the Great Commission to the Acts 1:8 mandate, how do we equip people to be His witnesses in the near places, the here places, the hard places, the far away places. And so marketplace ministry was a way for us to catalyze people to share the message of the gospel from the seats to the streets and wherever they find themselves. So we’ve been on this journey to help people discover their calling, live it out, and that doesn’t mean you have to leave the office and enter the pulpit to be used and called by God exactly where he has you. So man, I love this conversation. Thanks for inviting us, man!

Jeff Clark
And Earl has been a friend of mine for some time, and I’ve seen and felt firsthand his passion for the Gospel. And as I understand, you two have had many conversations over meals where you’re talking about these things. Take us inside these conversations. What did you guys learn? And where do they go? And what has been the impact on both of you as you’ve had them?

Earl McJett
Yes, oh my goodness! It has been so wonderful. Thank you so much for inviting us, Jeff. And yes, our meetings that we have had over our meals to talk about marketplace multipliers and how we can catalyze this movement in our congregation and in the community, has been a really wonderful experience that we’ve had! A wonderful journey that we’ve walked together. And we’ve seen it make a difference in the lives of the people in our congregation and in the lives of the people that they’ve come in contact with. So yes, we’ve started with Pastor Michael’s vision and moved forward with that, and it has been just an exciting, exciting experience at LifePoint Church.

Jeff Clark
Pastor Michael, I’ve got to imagine, as you’ve had these conversations, you’re coming from a different perspective, and you’re learning from each other. What’s different about the perspective of you as a pastor versus Earl as someone who’s in the marketplace?

Michael Rogalski
Yeah, well, it probably even symbolically unfolded over the food that we had. Earl took me to his favorite Mandarin restaurant, and I’ve had a mandarin orange. I’ve not had Mandarin food. And so he was like, here’s the spices, here’s what it looks like. And so that served as a figurative analogy of what it’s like to work in the marketplace and to live the gospel in the marketplace. So I had a learning curve for me to learn, okay, what does it look like to go to an office building and to share your faith in that kind of a way? And so we went on this journey together. Okay, how do we equip people? How do we come alongside people to do that? Because in some places, especially where we are on the rim of Metro DC, a lot of government, we’ve got a lot of educators that sharing your faith is not the same way that I share my faith from the pulpit. And so we had to go on a journey to figure out what is some curriculum, some resources that we can equip people to live their lives on purpose, for a purpose, for the glory of God. And so we went to a conference together, discovered some curriculum. Earl’s been training. He’s been actually training people in our congregation through seminars and small groups and zoom meetings about really helping people live out their calling. And so I just come along and champion, cheer it on. We’ve put messages out there and commissioning services as well. But, yeah, we’ve really tried to go from why is this important to how do we do it?

Jeff Clark
I know there’s a difference between being excited and having a vision to actually pastoring a congregation towards something. And it’s so obvious the way your congregation lives this out. So what have you learned about pastoring a whole body to embody something that you believe in?

Michael Rogalski
Yeah, well, I mean, you know the body of Christ, there’s all these different parts to it. There are people that, you know, are… whether it’s a civil engineer or a custodial engineer, they’ve got a language at their workplace, that people will hear the message of Jesus or their testimony more than they might ever even walk into the doors of a church. And so for me, it’s really been both humbling and inspiring at the same time to see that each person in the congregation has a sphere of influence that I may never be invited into, but Jesus is already there because they are. And so we often talk around here about, you know, instead of asking God to take you out of your neighborhood or take your neighbor out of your neighborhood, maybe you’re there, maybe God put you in there to be and live the gospel in that place. So for me, it’s been a real beautiful kind of picture to say, you know, God’s put you there on purpose, and here where we are in the rim of the, you know, one of the most influential cities in the world that, literally, people get deployed to the ends of the earth from here. So this is why this message is so important for our congregation.

Jeff Clark
I love how you’re talking about how you’re pushing people towards their calling, not your calling. As I understand, you recently had someone who was called to the marketplace who then ended up serving in the church. Can you tell us what you saw there and that whole transition?

Michael Rogalski
Yeah, well, he and Earl and another guy partnered together to do kind of our initial launch seminar gathering of here’s what it looks like to share your faith in the marketplace, and here’s how I live it out. So he’s one of our kind of keynote founders of it, was living it out. It was amazing to hear the way that God was working in that. And then just over a period of time, God shifted that to really become a true equipper. So he left the marketplace, and he’s now joined our staff full time as an assistant pastor. He’s actually going to be ordained in the Wesleyan church this year, and so he’s got a real passion for how do we help people continue to do this? And then how does his experience inform our messages, our preparation, our events and all of that? So it’s been amazing. So we’re called to share the gospel, whether it’s behind a pulpit or a desk or a dry erase board or a zoom screen. And so he’s been super helpful. It’s been beautiful to see how God has he’s given him the same mission. It’s just expressed itself in a different way, and how it’s making all of us better.

Jeff Clark
Earl, Pastor Michael talked earlier about some of the ways you’ve partnered in this, because you’ve been on the front edge of this, as well as the LBA Chair of your congregation pushing this forward. What’s been your role in this partnership?

Earl McJett
Well, at first, we were just coming together and deciding what does it mean to equip our congregation to carry and to share their faith out in the marketplace. And we brainstormed, we found a curriculum, we found ways to talk about this, and I came alongside Pastor Michael as he’s preaching the sermons about people’s calling as far as a great commission is concerned, and designed classes in our LifePoint University to teach people about how they can share their faith. And we’ve done several different kinds of classes, and in fact, we’re starting another semester this evening to talk about how to share your faith through the power of prayer. And there are so many different tools that you have to have in your toolbox when you go out into the marketplace to share your faith that we have to go through. There’s a ton of material to go through that each time we have a session, our congregation and the people that participate in these classes are that much better equipped to share their faith in the marketplace.

Jeff Clark
I know that there’s pastors or other vice chairs or marketplace people in other churches who want to know what’s the next step they can take. And I know, Earl, you recently brought the Groundswell curriculum to your church. So can you finish by talking a little bit about that and what the impact’s been?

Earl McJett
Oh, it has been wonderfully impactful. In fact, we had the people from our Marketplace Multipliers team and from Groundswell teach the Groundswell curriculum to several leaders at our church, and that training was wonderful. We learned so much from that, and it equipped us to think of different ways that we can share, because we were already on the path of sharing and equipping the people in the congregation. We learned through the Groundswell curriculum and through that teaching, we learned how to implement a chapter at our church. And really, by going with this chapter model, we were able to really ensure that there was momentum behind the program at our church on equipping the people to learn how to share their faith out in the marketplace.

Jeff Clark
So for those who want to take the next step, Earl, where can they find that information and start this in the way that you guys did?

Earl McJett
Yes, they can go to marketplacemultipliers.org, and you’ll see a link right on the homepage to get more information on how to start a chapter. And when you go there, you’ll find training materials and forms. You’ll have people you can contact that can step alongside you and help you to form a chapter, and give you ideas on how to equip the people in either a local community – It doesn’t have to be a church. It could be just a local community. You could have a chapter in your workspace. You can have a chapter in almost any kind of a forum. If you’ve got a social organization or a neighborhood or whatever, you can get together with this material and learn how to equip each other to go out into the marketplace and share your faith.

Jeff Clark
And I know this matches so perfectly with the heartbeat of marketplace multipliers to equip all Christians to do this work. So you can go there, as Earl said, at www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Thank you both for joining us and for the helpful information. Have a great day.

Michael Rogalski
Thanks.

Earl McJett
Thank you so much.

Carrie Whitcher
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast. For more information, go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Please like and subscribe to this podcast, and share with others who may benefit. And remember – you, too, can integrate your faith and influence your workplace for Christ.

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#14: Hispanic Movement Within Marketplace Multipliers

Jeff Clark
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multiplier Podcast. I’m Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan. Today we’re joined by Arlynn Ellis, who seems to have her hand in everything. She’s the leader of the Marketplace Multiplier movement in Hispanic communities, she’s the Assistant District Superintendent in the Mountain Plains District, she’s the founder of Acts of Hope, a non-profit that has impact across the entire South Texas region, and she’s involved in Hispanic Ministries across the Wesleyan Church, among other things. And you can imagine, I’ve known her for years, and she is just the type of person that’s worth following. I love this conversation because of her passion, how well she communicates, and just the way she engages so deeply in the MM movement.

We’re joined now by Arlynn Ellis and, Arlynn, we heard in the introduction all of the different things you’re involved with. Your hands are touching so many things, but your background isn’t even in ministry. You started studying business and got your MBA. So take us briefly through your journey of starting a business all the way to now, when you’re involved in so many different ministries.

Arlynn Ellis
I think life is interesting. I came to the US back in ‘96 with the idea of just learning how to speak English. Somehow, I started going to college into marketing and business administration. Got my MBA, but I felt a strong need to learn and grow deeper. I felt like I wanted to connect with that community and be able to not only work in my business and in the field that I study, but I wanted to make an impact for Christ. And as I was doing so, so many questions with women leaders, with youth, with so many different parts of the community, that I realized I need to prepare myself. I need to study. And it started with just one class with the Old Testament, and somehow I got connected with it, and I went on to prepare myself and being ordained just last year. So it really basically started with the idea of building a connection between the for profit and the nonprofit world, and making an impact for Christ.

Jeff Clark
And really it’s led to all these different roles, but the one we’re going to talk about today is how you’re really leading the way with the MM movement in Spanish speaking communities. So talk now a little bit about what you’re seeing come to life there.

Arlynn Ellis
One of the cool things in conversation is, for one is our Hispanic community is very diverse. We have people from Central, South, the Caribbean area in America, and realizing that our diversity is our strength, that we can connect with so many different people at different levels. We have that first generation Hispanic that comes to the US to work hard and make a difference and perhaps help their family. But then we have that second generation Hispanic that is Hispanic themselves, but at the same time, feels very Americanized, feels connected with a different culture. And so as a group, as a community, as Christian leaders and lay leaders, how can we empower our next generation, this generation, in every part of the generations, to really make an impact for Christ, not only by this making disciples, but even making stronger leaders in our community, making stronger citizens, people who are responsible through our faith. And so our conversations with the marketplace multipliers have been about how awesome it is that the majority of our pastors are already in the marketplace, that the lay leaders are in the marketplace, that the majority, a high percentage of our pastors are bi-vocational, and so how can we use our roles in the church and outside of the church to share our faith and make a difference. And so we’re finding that we’ve been there already, but we have not been intentional. And this is our moment to make a definite decision to be intentional, intentional with our approach and our discipleship outside of the church walls.

Jeff Clark
One of the things that I’ve been so encouraged and excited about as I engage with the MM movement is how much the heartbeat of leadership is really for it to be contextualized and come to life. This is not a program. This is the way we’re supposed to live outside the walls of the church. So you talk there about this being a moment to take advantage of opportunity. You’re seeing Kingdom potential, and even the variety of context you see within the Hispanic movement, what are some of the things that most excite you now as you look at the possibilities ahead?

Arlynn Ellis
You know, I look at the group that we’ve been meeting about it. I look at the conversations and how lay leaders and pastors have been working already in the marketplace, and how we have people that are in hotels working, they are restaurants working, that are teaching, they are nurses. It’s such a diverse field, but sometimes people don’t feel adequate to share their faith or even be themselves outside of the church. They feel like faith needs to happen only certain areas. And the truth is, we are called to be ourselves everywhere. We’re called to share the gospel everywhere. It doesn’t have to be carrying the Bible and reading Bible verses to people, but it is by showing and displaying our walk with Christ, what He has done in us. And so, for instance, in the marketplace, it’s about showing ethics. It’s about showing value. It’s about being responsible. It’s about talking about, how can we improve and do a better job? Because we want to be better. And so I’m excited about every generation – that is not just for people my age, younger or older, but it’s for like, the younger ones in the school settings. We can make an impact.

Jeff Clark
I know recently you had a launch event. Could you share a little bit with listeners about about that day?

Arlynn Ellis
Yes, it was. It was in March, and that conversation went about the importance of our roles and where we are and how we can empower lay leaders to take this message to new places. And so it was an exciting day, because we have people from the majority of the states of the US. We had a few people from outside, but most of them realized, you know what, I can make a difference where I’m working. A lot of people feel like, Okay, I gotta provide training to somebody else, or do I need to be trained in order to do this? And no, we’ve been saved. We’ve been leaders in the church. We’ve been discipled. We are ready to do this. The field is available, is waiting. And the truth is that society has changed so much. We have gone through so many obstacles. And so people are looking for that message of hope right now. People are looking for people to trust. And so if we can make that connection between our faith, our walk, and the fields where we are, I think the world will be a better place. And not only that, the name of Christ will reign everywhere. And so people will come to the feet of Christ a lot easier. But I think it’s making the ultimate decision that we are ready and we can continue to equip ourselves with conversations with empowering others to do so.

Jeff Clark
Well, I know one of the things that excites me, Arlynn… I’ve known you for a while, is when you get behind something, stuff happens. And you just have a way to get things done and move the ball forward. So we’re all excited, and I know you’re involved in so many Hispanic Ministries across the Wesleyan Church. So could I just finish by giving you a moment, maybe first in English, but then also in Spanish, to just share for those who are listening that you’ve been connected with before, or maybe haven’t been connected with before, but they want to get involved. They want to take the next step. Could you just address those people, whether it’s people who are in ministry or lay, who are listening to this, their hearts are stirred, and they want to take the next step.

Arlynn Ellis
Yes, and I’m here to reach to those Hispanic community members that speak English or speak Spanish, that feel that they want to be involved, but don’t know how. This is the time. Your time is now to be involved. There are people out there that are hurting and are thirsty for more of God, but don’t know how to receive it. And guess what? We don’t have to have special training. You don’t have to be a pastor to do so. You can do it the way you are. So I invite you to join our group.

Estoy aquí para llegar a los miembros de la comunidad hispana que hablan inglés o español y que desean participar, pero no saben cómo. Este es el momento. Tu tiempo es ahora para involucrarte. Hay personas que sufren y anhelan más de Dios, pero no saben cómo recibirlo. ¿Y sabes qué? No necesitamos una formación especial. No necesitas ser pastor para hacerlo. Puedes hacerlo tal como eres. Así que te invito a unirte a nuestro grupo.

Jeff Clark
Well, I don’t speak Spanish, but I’m ready to go right now! So I appreciate your passion. Appreciate partnering for the gospel with you, Arlynn, and really grateful for the time today.

Arlynn Ellis
Well, thank you. Thank you so much. I’m excited, and I can’t wait to keep sharing the stories that are coming about.

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#13: Launch Day: Marketplace Multiplier Starter Kit

Jeff Clark
Welcome to another episode of the Marketplace Multipliers Podcast. I’m Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. If you’ve launched a chapter of Marketplace Multiplier, or you’re thinking about it, but you’re unsure of what the next steps are, today’s a great episode for you. We’re going to be hearing about Groundswell and the curriculum that is developed for Marketplace Multipliers. We’re going to be joined by two people. Sharon Furbur is the Senior Vice President of Learning and Organizational Development at First Commonwealth Federal Credit Union. Jon Wiest is the Executive Director of Groundswell, along with the co-founder of Mobilize the Church, and the planter of multiple churches, and author of multiple books. They’re going to be talking about this curriculum and how it can help you in the next steps. Listen in now.

We’re joined now by Jon Wiest and Sharon Furbur, and I’m super excited about this conversation today, because the momentum behind Marketplace Multipliers has grown. There’s more of a shared vision that people are seeing for why this is needed. Why does the gospel need to go to the marketplace, and why do we as marketplace multipliers need to carry that forward? And what is the role of these chapters in the church? We see that energy growing across the country and around the world, but often the next question is, What’s the practical next step. Sharon and Jon have been working together to build that, and that’s what we’re talking about today, is the Starter Kit that they’ve created that gives pastors and chapter leaders a process to get there, and it’s practical. But I want to start with you, Jon, because this is a partnership between Groundswell, your organization, and Marketplace Multipliers. So why don’t you start by telling us a little bit more about what you do with Groundswell, and then that can help set the stage for why these two groups partnered together.

Jon Wiest
Yeah, great. Thanks, Jeff, for welcoming us on. I know Sharon and I are both really excited about talking through all of this. Groundswell started in early 2020 with a passion to mobilize more disciple makers and pioneers. And so what we do through Groundswell is partner with pastors and network leaders to really mobilize more workers for the harvest. I mean, Jesus said in Luke 10, the harvest is plentiful, right? The workers are few and so just a real passion and desire to do that. And it’s funny, the name came – I was walking along the beach in California, visiting my sister, just watching the waves come in and out, and I had this image of just waves of people engaging the mission. And so that’s kind of where Groundswell came. And we’re so excited to partner with Marketplace Multipliers as kind of one of those networks to really help mobilize more people. So thanks for having me, man.

Jeff Clark
So Sharon, you’ve obviously been on the ground floor of Marketplace Multipliers and seen this, and you’ve worked closely with Jon. So take us back to the start of the partnership, and just take us through the journey of getting to this point where there’s now something to be released for pastors and chapter leaders.

Sharon Furbur
Oh, absolutely. Well, let me just say, God is good all the time, right? Because as soon as Jon and I connected, it was like, Bam! Right, Jon? And we just, of course, have a passion for Christ, our lives for Christ and a passion also to help others. Put all that together with Jon’s expertise, with my expertise, and we just continued to talk and talk… What is essential? What is critical? What – if you think about marketplace, right? How are we going to fit it in to people that are really, really busy? And what is on that ground floor so that they can launch these fabulous chapters and continue to live the Great Commission?

Jeff Clark
So then I’d just love to hear practically, what is this partnership? I know you guys have talked about a Starter Kit. But Jon, you’ve done this in multiple directions. Talk about the Starter Kit itself and what it gives to those who sign up and join in this.

Jon Wiest
Yeah, absolutely. So the Starter Kit… The reason we saw the need for it is, you know, marketplace multipliers, like you said, it’s growing. New people are hearing about it all the time. I think churches and pastors are excited to get rolling with it. There’s a real heart to mobilize folks. What’s been needed, though, is just an on ramp, a process, like a way to do training. How to get new churches not only engaged in the concepts, I think a lot of people are engaged in the concept and the idea of it. But what’s Step 1? You know? What’s Step 2? How do I identify people? What training do I use? And you know, we’re innovating as we go. I mean, we’re launching this new thing, and so we really saw the need to create this Starter Kit that’s going to basically walk pastors and leaders through a process of just some basic foundational tools for mobilizing marketplace multipliers. So it’s a four session kit. You can access it online, and then there’s a bonus session that really gets into the nuts and bolts of launching a chapter. You know what to do, just kind of logistically, how to set up your meetings, things like that. So we really see it as a go-to for any pastor or chapter leader that’s wanting to get off the ground. This is a foundational tool they really can use to do that, to make that happen.

Jeff Clark
So Sharon, I know that you’ve been piloting this in different directions. I’m curious, I want to hear a little bit more about those four session and some of the particulars. Sharon, what have you seen from the places that have taken this and run with it?

Sharon Furbur
So for one, we have seen a continued passion to want to just spread God’s word, right? But also do it with love, right? Sharing the truth and love, because we’ve got to be reaching people where they’re at, just like Jesus did. So one thing was really talking about within the marketplace, using the lingo within the marketplace, right? If you’re wanting to reach those individuals as well, that’s what drew Jon and I to a four session, because everybody’s busy. We’ve got to fit something else onto our calendars and also making it one hour sessions. This seems to be the right fit through all of our pilots. That has been the feedback, and that has enabled us to truly customize again this information. So the four sessions… just high level… The first one, it’s about living the mission, right? It’s making sure, like, are you really ready? Are you continually ready to further make sure God is first, right? And living out that Great Commission, and what does it mean? Then, abiding in Christ. Okay, what level are you at? One thing we talk about is you’re only going to be able to reach people at the level you’re at with your faith and your walk. So how do I acknowledge where I’m at? How do I also… what things can I do to further build and deepen where I’m at, and then further reach others. Then, of course, building relationships. It’s all about relationships. It’s all about connecting. And one of the resources we utilize is the Nine Arts of Spiritual Conversations. Key, key information we’ve got to take time to really learn and understand and love on someone before we start, you know, pushing them in any way, shape or form. Because, again, marketplace multipliers… You could have a brand new believer. You could have someone that’s just questioning it, Should I, shouldn’t I? Right? What is this whole God thing? Or it could also be somebody that’s walked away from their faith, but now they’re interested in maybe rebuilding. All different levels. And then, of course, our fourth session is again, meeting people where they’re at. We’re talking about what we title Discovery Groups and Discipleship Groups, and once you involve yourself in the training, you’ll learn more about those. But again, it’s all about the best way in reaching people and further growing and building the relationships and the spread of the Great Commission.

Jeff Clark
One of the things that’s really stands out as you talk, Sharon, because I’ve heard about this, but that’s the most detail that I’ve heard, is just how practical this is in nature. Because one of the things we hear is excitement and energy behind multiplication in the marketplace, but a lack of knowledge and know-how, a lack of practical next steps. And often it comes from lay people who don’t have the theological training of pastors, and they hear these grand ideas, but they don’t know how to translate it to where they’re at. So Jon, talk a little bit to us about just how you guys landed knowing this passion you have for mobilizing disciple makers where they’re at, but making it practical, where anybody can go through this process and clearly know how to actually bring this to life in a natural way, to their context. So the Gospel goes forward in a way that doesn’t rely only on pastors, but anybody can take this and run with it.

Jon Wiest
Yeah, so Sharon said, I mean, we’ve, tried to simplify this. Live the mission, abide in Christ, build relationships, make disciples, like it’s a simple process. It’s not easy, but it’s simple, and we really wanted to make it accessible for people. You know, living the mission, just to start there… There’s a concept of three spaces, and the first place is home, the second place is work, and the third place is kind of where you spend a lot more of your time, a coffee shop or an athletic Club, a gymnasium, something like that. You know, people are spending so much time at work. I mean, it’s so much of our days is in the marketplace, so much of our time is spent there in that second place. And Jesus said, “Go and make disciples”. And so trying to equip people to leverage what they’re already doing. You know, I think in the Greek, it’s actually “as you are going, make disciples”, so as you’re going about your day to day routine in the marketplace, how do you live on mission? So we just kind of walk through basic tools on how do you live on mission? You know? How do you abide in Christ during the stresses of the day, during the tough board meeting you just had, during the rough conversation? How do you stay focused and centered on Christ and who He is? And then, you know, building relationships. Sharon mentioned the Nine Arts, but these are nine really practical things. You know, notice people, pray for people, listen to people, ask questions, love, facilitate, like, just very again, simple tools on that. And then, how do you build a bridge to the gospel? Because I know I’ve got a lot of relationships in my life, and sometimes it’s just, it’s football, it’s sports, it’s basketball, it’s the weather, it’s Hey, how are your kids doing? But how do you actually bridge a relationship or a conversation into spiritual things? So we really do training on that around that third session, that idea of building relationships by, you know, asking strategic questions, talking through where they add and what’s their story, and how’d they get where they are. Bridging that into your testimony, finding ways to do that. And then finally, on disciple making… you know, we didn’t pull out the 52 lessons from the Greek concordance that we need to train people. We just want to say, how do you disciple somebody one-on-one? How do you disciple a smaller group of people in a discipleship group? And then what if you had even larger interest and you wanted to start a Discovery Group? So there’s just three really simple tools, one-on-one, Discipleship Groups and Discovery Groups that we really wanted to kind of help facilitate and help people see, Hey, this is easy! I don’t want to say EASY, but it’s simple. We just need to get started, you know, just need to get rolling.

Jeff Clark
One of the things that’s so exciting to me as I hear this… I was just this morning hearing about just the death of evangelism, and how so many Christians don’t even believe in evangelism. And I wonder how much of that is because of awkward attempts of evangelism. And that’s our whole paradigm – It’s almost like you can’t have an authentic relationship, because you have to hijack every conversation and walk them through a multiple step plan for whether they’re going to heaven or not. And what I hear you saying is, let’s train people for practical ways to infuse the spiritual into normal life and to build relationships where that would happen naturally. So Sharon, as someone who lives and works and breathes the marketplace like you do, talk to us a little bit about how this sets people up to much more naturally evangelize and disciple those that we live with every single day, to live on mission as we’re called to, but in a way that feels much more seamless with our everyday life.

Sharon Furbur
Absolutely, Jeff. You know what? It comes down to still being yourself, being authentic. And I’m going to use the term from the corporate world, “not having a hidden agenda”. So yes, do we want to spread God’s word? Absolutely. But we don’t want a hidden agenda trying to force things. It’s doing what you do, and continuing to just pray and listen to God’s guidance. He’ll give it to us. He’ll give it to us in what the right timing is, or how far do I go? Pray in those moments. And just keeping it real… that’s what Jesus did, right? It’s just keeping it real. Forget about shoving, let’s just sprinkle. Let’s love on one another, and then utilizing these tools and techniques, and depending on God’s timing on when to share them. One of the things with Marketplace Multipliers…. What I have seen – people in the marketplace and everyone that’s listening, you can say if I’m right or wrong… We love and work towards deadlines, right? And we normally have a lot of deadlines to face, and we’re excellent multitaskers as well, right? But the thing is, with your chapters, you can set goals, and you want to set goals, and you want God to say – Hey, pray to him, the people that are leaning into you. Let me notice, for example, as part of the Nine Arts. But then also letting it be on God’s timing. So you may come back the next month, and this is what I have found. I said, “So what happened? What did, how did God show up in the marketplace? What happened?” And at first, I was getting, “Sharon, I don’t know. Not really a lot of progress.” “Well, what do you mean? Not a lot of progress. Talk to me.” Well, because in in the marketplace, again, people in the market, it’s – I accomplished this goal. I finished this project. So they were coming to the task that they weren’t successful unless they actually had a spiritual conversation. And it was like, no, no. Let’s talk through. Tell me what you did. Tell me what you did to further strengthen your relationship, your walk, tell me what you did, just little things. And then all of a sudden it’s like, that’s moving forward! Let’s celebrate! Stop being so hard on yourself. That’s a mindset change, though, I feel, right? Because again, we’re driven. We’re driven like, we’ve got to accomplish this full task. So that means I’ve got to reach, you know, five people for Christ in a month.

Jon Wiest
This is one of the things, you know, we talk about on the relationship building piece of it, because the best way to do evangelism is to live a transformed life and have other people ask you, “Hey, why do you live the way you do? How come you forgive, you know, your boss, your coworker, so easily? How do you love the way you do? Why do you serve that way? How come you listen to me like that?” I call that living a questionable life, and I know it’s kind of like a play on words, like a questionable life, but you know, live a life that would cause people to ask questions and say, you know, why do you live the way you do? And I think a lot of times, and what you’re getting to, Sharon, is when we live out of kind of abiding in Christ and resting in Him, and our life looks different, then our co-workers and the people around us, it invites questions from people. And yeah, we definitely have a number of bridges we kind of share, we talk about. But the number one way, I think, probably the most successful way, the easiest way, is when other people ask you a question, and then you can immediately say, “Man, I the reason I can live the way I do is because, you know, I spend time with the Lord. I’m a follower of his. I live my life with him.” And so, but again, back to your question, Jeff… I mean, it’s really sort of this concept, philosophy, way of living, that we’re really trying to embed in this training.

Jeff Clark
Jon, let me ask you one final question, because you are not officially part of Marketplace Multipliers. You’re mobilizing disciples in many different directions. So how about now that we have this Starter Pack, and it’s something we’ve been looking for, because, again, there’s a lot of excitement, but questions about what to do first. You’re looking at these different directions where God is moving. Talk to that pastor, or talk to that lay person who wants to start a chapter. From what you’re seeing from the outside, what’s your excitement behind Marketplace Multipliers and how would you encourage them to start something now? What are you seeing that you would encourage them with?

Jon Wiest
We are trying to remove the obstacles to getting started, right? I think the hardest part of anything is getting started. Just take the initiative, right? Like, step out of the boat, walk on water, whatever. You need to get started, you know, one step at a time. And one of the biggest roadblocks, typically, for getting started is, I don’t know what to do. I just don’t know what to do. You know, how do I get started? How do I start a chapter? This takes the mystery out of that. This is a really simple process. You know what? You’re going to have this online. You’ll have access to the training. You have a Leader’s Guide. You have a free copy, a digital copy of the Marketplace Multipliers book. There are facilitation tips. You’ve got a branding kit, logos, access to a resource library, like we want to take away, sort of that roadblock of, I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to get started. And I think what I’m most excited about is this provides kind of an on ramp for chapters to get out of the gate, to get started, to take the initiative. One of the cool things that Sharon and I were talking about, and as the Training Director, I know she’s going to help lead a lot of this. If you’re a pastor and you want ongoing coaching, or if you want somebody to kind of walk you through even this Starter Kit one step at a time, we’re going to provide that as well. And so I think I’m probably most excited. I don’t say it as excitedly as Sharon says it, so she’s going to get on and maybe do a better job. But I’m just, I’m excited that we’re taking out the kind of mystery of, how do we get this thing off the ground, and hopefully putting a resource in pastors’ hands and leaders’ hands that they can take and really run with. So yeah, I’ll let Sharon do the rest.

Jeff Clark
Well since you’re excited about everything, Sharon, tell us the practical step for a leader who is listening to this. What does it look like to move forward with this Starter Kit?

Sharon Furbur
Absolutely. It’s going to the Marketplace Multipliers website, and you will see a link “Starter Kit”, right? It’s about clicking on that, and it’s only for the cost of $199, and we can be as engaged as you want us to be. So in other words, it’s an online platform. The Leaders Guide is there. The online platform also has questions. You can lead it by yourself, with your group, or as Jon mentioned, we are here. We’re here. We can facilitate each one of those four sessions for the leaders of your group, whatever works for you. We’re very flexible with time, but it’s all just a matter of going to www.marketplacemultipliers.com, “Starter Kit”, click, $199. We’ll get notification, and we will reach out to you and say, “What works for you? Is this something you want to totally do on your own, working through the online platform? Or we’re here, you let us know.”

Jeff Clark
So there you all have it, both the excitement and energy behind it, but also the practical ways to move forward again. If you’re curious and wanting to step forward with a chapter, and the Starter Kit is the way to launch it, go to www.marketplace multipliers.com, and you can purchase everything there. Or reach out to us with more questions from the website. You can reach out because we’re happy to help in any way. We really believe in this movement of God and how he’ll take the gospel to new places as we engage in the marketplace. So thanks so much for listen to this episode. We’ll talk to you next time.

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#12: The April 17 MM Launch

Jeff Clark
Welcome to Episode 12 of the Marketplace Multipliers podcast, where we feature men and women who are intentional in integrating their faith and influencing Christ at work. We believe God is at work at work. My name is Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. In this episode, you’re going to hear more details about the Marketplace Multipliers launch event coming up on April 17. This event, which has been kicked off by John Maxwell and Kevin Myers, is open to anyone with interest in the MM movement. Listeners can go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com to sign up or find out more. We’ll put the link in the show notes. In the second interview today, you’ll hear from two MM’s who are intimately involved in the planning of the launch. Sharon Furbur works as the Vice President of Learning and Organizational Development at First Commonwealth Federal Credit Union, and is an Assistant Pastor at Faith Wesleyan in Orfield, Pennsylvania. Earl McJett works in a federal banking regulatory agency in Washington, DC, and serves as the Vice Chair at LifePoint Church in Waldorf, Maryland. But first, here’s General Superintendent Wayne Schmidt sharing his excitement for the launch event and the future of the MM movement.

Jeff Clark
I’m joined again by General Superintendent Wayne Schmidt, and we are just a couple of weeks out from the launch event. How are you feeling?

Wayne Schmidt
Oh, I can’t wait. Boy, the stories that are going to be shared, the people we’re going to meet, next steps and who’s joining us… Wow, what a great group of people who are already registered for this time together!

Jeff Clark
Yeah, if you could go anywhere in the world and pick what person you’d want to speak at the launch event of the Marketplace Multipliers platform… John Maxwell would be right near the top of that list. How in the world did he get involved? And what’s the connection here?

Wayne Schmidt
Well, he’ll be interviewed by Kevin Myers, Pastor of 12 Stone church, and Kevin has been mentored by John for years. And it’s true. I mean, John is known all over the world as a best selling author and speaker, but the real reason behind asking him… And this came up in a setting I was with, with John and Kevin a number of years ago. John was talking about where he’d been and some of the latest writing he had done, and it was very, very interesting, very entertaining, that he can tell a story in a wonderful way. And then he came from a whole ‘nother place of deep passion, and talking about how he was having opportunities for disciple making in the marketplace, and the numbers of people coming to Christ, and how when he added value, he could talk to them about almost anything, and who God was giving him an audience with. And Jeff, it went from that excitement about just travel and opportunity to – you could tell this was at the core of who he was, and we’re going to pick up on that in the interview. That’s part of this meeting on April 17.

Jeff Clark
Yeah, he’s one of many that just have a growing passion for people who are integrating their faith and influence for Christ at work, the whole point of the Marketplace Multiplier movement. And we’re going to hear from two of them today, two who do that so well, Sharon Furbur and Earl McJett, and you know both of them very well.

Wayne Schmidt
I sure do. I don’t think you could meet two more positive people, Jeff. I mean, the only thing I wish is people could see their smiles, both of them, just the brightness of their faces. But here’s what’s key. This is not just sunny side of life, positive thinking for us. This positive outlook on life comes from a very deep faith and the sense that they’re being included in something God is doing. So we’re going to sense their enthusiasm for marketplace multipliers and that positive spirit which they bring. But I want to be sure we recognize that they are in very different contexts, one in a huge federal government setting in DC, and the other in a business setting, even a smaller business, both of them in those different contexts, integrate their faith with their work and certainly leverage their influence.

Jeff Clark
It has to excite you as General Superintendent, as you look across the church, to think about more people finding this new level of joy as they go to work, when they really pursue this concept.

Wayne Schmidt
Wow, and Jeff, it’s happening in all kinds of context, you know, and that’s really fun. And then it’s happening with all ages. I mean, happening at the university, Southern Wesleyan and other places. You know, you’re involved in disciple making at the university. And then it’s around the world. And so to have greetings from India and greetings from Bogota, Colombia, etc, it’s just energizing. But we have to admit, too, our amazing volunteers have certainly gone above and beyond to make this happen. And it’s for Marketplace Multipliers, but it’s by marketplace multipliers, and that’s something I really love about it.

Jeff Clark
And we’re going to hear from these two now talk a little bit about their journey, but also hearing more about the launch event coming up on April 17.

We’re joined now by Sharon Furbur and Earl McJett. And Earl, I want to start with you. Both of you go all the way back to the beginning of Marketplace Multipliers, and I just want to give you a chance to share a little bit about who you are, how you became involved, and what you’ve seen over your time with MM.

Earl McJett
Wow. Thanks so much, Jeff. I’m really glad to be here with you. Wow, what a journey we’ve been on. It’s been a wonderful, wonderful journey where we’ve been able to share with one another about our experiences prior to getting together and sharing the gospel with those people that we work with, and those people that are in our lives. Really it’s so important for us to consider that when we go to church, that the building itself is not the church. Those in attendance at church are the church. And therefore when the service is over and the people leave the building and go into their cars, the church literally leaves that building and is no longer there. So the whole idea that the church is out in the community and in our workplaces during the week is just such an important concept, and I’d like to live that way. And I am excited to share with people that that is what’s happening, that when they go into their workplace, that they’re bringing the church with them, and they’re bringing the Lord with them, and it’s important to interact with the people that are there in the way that Jesus would want us to interact with them, so that others can get to know him.

Jeff Clark
Earl, it’s countercultural to hear you say that because you serve as a vice chair of a church, so you’re charged to be paying attention to finances and the numbers inside the church. So as you’ve been in that role, and as you’ve lived this, how have you grown in your own personal faith as you’ve been more intentional of not just being inside the walls of the church, but carrying it forward into the workplace and the other relationships?

Earl McJett
Yeah, that’s so powerful. You know that concept that we’re when we’re at the church, and when we serve in various roles in the church, that there are various things that we have to do, from running the finances to ensuring that the utilities are all paid, and ensuring that salaries are done, and all the things that we do in running a church, right? But we always have to remember that what we’re doing when we’re at the church in doing all of those things is we are helping to equip the saints to carry out the Great Commission. So one of the things that I’ve always loved about our church is that our pastor, Michael Rogalski, he came up with a concept that I understand, that other churches including yours, were already implementing as well. And that is the idea of having a commissioning service where he preaches about the Great Commission to the congregation and then allows people to answer the call to go out and do what the Lord already called us to do. And then having a ceremony where the ministry leaders of the church lay hands on the congregants that have stepped up and volunteered, and send them out into the into the marketplace.

Jeff Clark
Yeah, that was a powerful thing for me that was talked about in Episode 4 – if listeners want to go back – with my pastor, Steve de Neff, and just so meaningful to be sent in that way. And Sharon, I know that’s the way you live as well. I’ve seen you on the front lines of the MM movement. So how are you processing all this over the past couple of years, since you’ve been involved?

Sharon Furbur
Oh my goodness, Jeff, I want to build on what Earl had said, “The church has left the building!” And that again, Jesus is about bringing our whole selves, right? Our whole selves, not, here’s my faith, here’s my workplace. No, it’s bringing our whole selves to every part of our life, every minute, every second, day in, day out, 100%. So it has been such a blessing and humbled to be part of Marketplace Multipliers.

Jeff Clark
And you’ve really been the one driving the ship for the launch event that’s coming up soon. So why don’t you share a little bit about what’s coming up?

Sharon Furbur
You do not have to ask me twice, Jeff! Absolutely. So a specific date, Saturday, April 17, 11am to noon, EST, online virtual, and you can register through our website. But you will hear… First off, there’s a really big surprise of someone very well known that’s going to open for our kickoff for our live event. I’ll leave you hanging. Maybe I’ll get you interested in signing on. And then we’re going to hear real stories from other marketplace multipliers, diverse backgrounds, an update on where we’re going, our vision, our next steps. And then, of course, closing prayer and a call to action for each and every one of us of something we want to do more of after attending this event, to be that bright light for Jesus

Jeff Clark
The excitement is obvious in your voice. Sharon, and I want to hear a little bit more about that, because this is something that’s been growing over months and years to now be at this point of launching. Just talk about your excitement about what’s ahead and what the potential of what God may do is.

Sharon Furbur
Oh my goodness! God… Well, first off, God is driving. God is driving. He’s been driving and every day, every minute, every meeting that the Strategy Team has had, it begins and ends with God in the driver seat, and it has been beautiful. It’s all about his timing, and that’s why it really feels beautiful. And then an outcome of it is reaching everyone, right? God can do anything. God can do absolutely anything. So we are just being that vessel, another tool, bringing this event and praying everyone that needs to hear it will hear it, and then we will just blow the doors off and absolutely reach so many more people for Jesus Christ and help people to truly influence and integrate their faith and their workplace, because, again, it’s about one life, one life.

Jeff Clark
And Earl, I want to get to you in a second about where to sign up and the website itself. But first, Sharon, let’s say there’s somebody listening… maybe it’s a pastor, or maybe it’s an individual person, and they’re just hearing about this for the first time, and they’re excited, but they don’t know if they should tune in. They don’t know if they’re allowed to tune in. So can you talk first about who should be coming, and then second, what are your hopes for what people who are hearing about this for the first time that day will walk away with?

Sharon Furbur
So really, anyone! Anyone that has a desire to further integrate their faith in all aspects of their life, wherever they are. So it can be pastors, it can be people that have already established a chapter where they’re working on things together. It can be an individual… This is the first time, and I’m just wondering, and I’m having a question mark. And if you have a question mark, that means God’s probably nudging at your heart that you should sign on and attend. And really, we want to have people get familiar with the topic of marketplace multipliers, what does that mean, and then be confident, confident that they are loved and to love everyone that they interact with. And how can we best do that? By just showing the love of Jesus Christ, and then having the wisdom through God and through, hopefully, the stories they hear on the live event on how best to do that, right? We want to be that sprinkling can all of us. We don’t want to be that fire hose of pushing people. God is patient. It’s on God’s timing. It’s not on our timing, but God’s patient. And we just want to help. We want to be that tool, helping others to truly integrate their faith.

Jeff Clark
So as I’m understanding it, this could be anybody, maybe people who aren’t even affiliated with the church. Anybody would be allowed to come and participate and hear more. So Earl, can you talk a little bit about what that person should do if they’re hearing this and they really desire and they’re curious and they want to hear more, what are the next steps?

Earl McJett
Absolutely, the first thing they should do is go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. We’ve been really, really blessed to work with an amazing team that put together this website, which has a lot of resources and information related to the Marketplace Multipliers movement, but at the very top, there’s a link called Events. If they click that, they’ll be able to register for this free event.

Jeff Clark
The website is really getting a lot of traction in terms of both equipping, drawing people to events, giving information. Who else should go to the website, and what else might they find there.

Earl McJett
Really, the website is available to everyone, and it’s actually available worldwide. In fact, we added a widget at the very bottom of the website that does automatic translations of the content on the website, because this is not just a resource for the North American church. This is a resource for the entire world. And we’re always, we’re all very excited about the engagement that we’ve had from leaders in the Asia Pacific region of the world, and also Ibero America region of the world. And so there’s a lot of interest in the marketplace multipliers movement, and it has gone global.

Jeff Clark
Sharon, I want to give you the final word. For those who are hearing and they want to pray alongside of this event and what God’s doing through the Marketplace Multiplier movement. What’s your biggest hope and prayer as you anticipate the launch event?

Sharon Furbur
My biggest hope and prayer is that people attending truly, truly leave with the feeling of God’s love, confidence, calmness. To truly start or further integrate their faith, wherever they are, whoever they are. It doesn’t matter even if someone is a new Christian, a seasoned Christian, questioning about Christianity, whatever their need is, that at least we’re planting a seed. We’re planting a seed. and then look out ! And we’re going to pray and watch God, how it just continues to grow and grow and grow all in his time.

Jeff Clark
And that’s part of the excitement! This is for people all across the board. Those who have never met Christ, to those who have been in the church since they were born and are already retired. There’s really new levels of integrating our faith and influencing other for Christ that we can go to wherever we’re at. So we’re excited for whoever wants to join in.

Thanks both for coming in and again, listeners go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com and then to Events to sign up and find out more about the information.

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#11: The Story and Potential of the MM Movement

Jeff Clark
Welcome to Episode 11 of the Marketplace Multipliers Podcast. I’m Jeff Clark, and I serve as the Associate Head Basketball Coach at Indiana Wesleyan University. Through our first 10 episodes, we’ve heard stories of people who are integrating their faith and influencing for Christ at work. There’s never been a significant movement of God without the involvement of laity, moving disciple-making beyond the walls of the church. One of the ways this is happening In the Wesleyan movement and beyond is through the MM movement. And today you’re going to hear an update of how that is coming to life. To hear more about the movement, how to register for the Launch event coming up on April 17, or about the new book written by David Drury, you can go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com. Today we’re bringing on three MM’s to have been at the center of the growth of this movement, Carrie Whitcher, Yare Alicea and Paul Anthes. I have no doubt, as you listen to these three that you will get a sense of the energy and momentum of the movement that God is bringing to life.

We’re joined now by three of the members of the Marketplace Multipliers launch team, and Carrie, I want to start with you, because from the start, you’ve really been one who’s been leading the way and driving the ship. So can you just go back to how you got engaged with this movement and what you’ve seen God do over the past couple of years?

Carrie Whitcher
Thank you, Jeff. So appreciate the opportunity to be with you here today. The Marketplace Multiplier movement really set hold for me back in June of 2019 as Pastor Wayne Schmidt called several of us like-minded marketplace multipliers together at Wheaton College to attend the Amplify conference. And from that moment, we were connecting with talented leaders from a variety of careers and backgrounds that afforded us a chance to really think about how we can play an even more influential role in our workplaces, to integrate faith with our work. And as that kicked off, we kept talking. And as the year closed out back in 2019, there were several of us that got together as a small planning group and began to think about, where does this type of movement go? Where do we start? What are the things we want to do now, as opposed to next or later into the future. And so it was in that moment that we really began to plan for what a Marketplace Multiplier movement could look like. And we were very intentional in thinking about how we could integrate faith, as well as how we could mobilize local chapters within the church setting, or within regional settings that could be contextualized to meet their specific needs, as well as thinking about how we spread the word through releasing a newsletter and publishing a book, as well as launching a website, which I’m happy to report just occurred. So all of this has been grounded in a greater vision as to specifically calling out the fact that marketplace multipliers equip all Christians to influence their workplace and integrate their faith by making disciples and unleashing the kingdom of God wherever they are. And so we are intentional in this, to integrate our faith in our work. We’re intentional in making disciples and multiplying the kingdom, and we want to do this in whatever career or areas of influence that we’re led into. We know that God is at work where we work, and we want to continue to serve that higher interest and use our influence to lead with excellence. And thus far, the momentum that this small team and then ongoing conversations with other marketplace multipliers and pastors has resulted in is just incredible to watch unfold.

Jeff Clark
It really has been fun, every week it feels like, to get some update about a new place this is spreading to and where the movement is going, and really how it’s going globally. And I want to get to the global aspect of this in a minute. But first, Paul, I want to rewind, and I want to go back decades when you and Wayne Schmidt began to meet one-on-one accountability. And from the start, knowing him, knowing you, you guys were talking about these concepts for years, and implementing them. So can you start maybe back in some of those conversations, and then come forward to now. Would you ever have dreamed the overflow of this would be moving across the world?

Paul Anthes
Good question, Jeff. So yeah, Wayne and I go back over 35 years of an accountability relationship, and a big part of that journey was growing in my faith. And I had the benefit of a pastor who believed in me taking my faith to the marketplace. And so we would share stories about my workplace, and he would give me counsel. We would celebrate together when things happened the way we thought they should in God’s kingdom. So to have a pastor who believed that I was sent to the marketplace was an incredible blessing for me. I want others to have that same kind of blessing on them, and the confidence they can do that. But as I integrated my faith, it became more and more natural that, yes, my faith should be brought to the marketplace. We spend more hours awake at work than we do any other place. So why wouldn’t my faith be at play there? And now I read the Bible differently because of that. I look at how God does want our faith integrated in all of our lives, especially at our work. So as I said, I had that blessing of having been with Wayne and our journey together, and having a pastor who believed that I was really sent to the marketplace, supported me, encouraged me in that way. And then to think that others could gain that same kind of support through something like Marketplace Multipliers. I’d love to have people confident that they can and should implement their faith at work, and it would go well for them. So I’m excited about where this is going and how we can encourage others to do this. Having lived that way for a number of years now, it makes so much sense from a spiritual perspective, to fully integrate my faith at work. It is the right way to do it, the way God wants us to do it, and I want others to experience that as well.

Jeff Clark
And really, as you look at the momentum of this, the potential of the other people who could be influenced and pushed in this direction is limitless. And Yare, I want to move to you, because you’ve been on the front edge of what’s happening internationally, and it is going to new places. And one of the things I love about seeing Wayne and the team lead is there really is a heart not to control this, but to allow people to contextualize it to where they’re at, because the leaders there most fully understand what is needed in that marketplace context. And that’s even shown in how so much of this movement has been led by those in the marketplace, rather than by pastors. So can you give us a little bit of insight of what you’re seeing as you’re on the front edge of what’s happening internationally?

Yare Alicea
Sure thing. It has been such an exciting journey, working and partnering globally with leaders, with marketplace multipliers. And I’ll say that right now you’re working in the implementation guide in co-creating, which is an important concept, right? We are launching from the US, but through the journey of partnering globally, there is some ideas and some work that we are creating, and we can bring back to today us as well. So it has been such a humbling and exciting journey as well. I’ll say that as a marketer, I just want to bring something from what I do day-to-day. You always are thinking about like a target customer, a target market, right? And then the intention is to solve the big problem that that target customer has with the product, showing the benefits of your product. And then that ‘sthe reason why you have so many products in the market. But when we see the gospel, when we see Jesus, and we think about this strategy of going to the world and just sharing your faith and living your faith in the place you are, basically you’re reaching all the target customers, and you’re solving that tension with the unique benefit that you can, and the unique way you can share the benefit of having Christ in your life. So for me, it’s like a mind blowing and just working outside the US, partnering with the Hispanic group, and understanding how we can connect with their leadership, their Latino, their Hispanic community, is amazing. I’ll say that for the Latino, the mindset is more like, let’s have everything ready and be super organized before launching. And that is what we’re doing. We are partnering, working in – we are planning to have the first meeting with the Hispanic leaders in April. So exciting!

Jeff Clark
That is so exciting! And it reminds me going back to that event in June, in 2019, I know you were there, all of us were there. And you put a group like that, and you have Wayne leading them. And it’s not a situation where people are saying, let’s just find five people around us. You know, those are some big dreamers, and Wayne already is in some unknown country, in a place he’s never been thinking about how the gospel will reach that place. And that’s why it’s so fun. Just less than two years later to see all the momentum going forward. So Yare, what do you see as the potential? Where could this go? Because your excitement and your passion is so obvious right now, as you’re in these conversation. Where could this go to and what’s the potential for the gospel of this movement?

Yare Alicea
Well, the potential is unlimited. I’ll say that I see today we are partnering as the Wesleyan Church with the leadership and with the global community, but since day one, I believed we are going to have a global impact, even outside the Wesleyan Church. The times that I have had the opportunity to share what we are working with and what we are doing is very exciting for believers and for leaders. I believe we are going to be around the globe with the Marketplace Multipliers ministry by the end of 2021. I will have so many chapters open, and probably coming up in 2022 and 2023, we are going to be rolling this vision outside our church.

Jeff Clark
And listeners will be able to hear in the April episode more about the launch event. On April 17, John Maxwell is going to be featured there, along with several other marketplace multipliers. And there’s going to be more information coming. But before we get to that Carrie, one of the things that strikes me… There’s a vision for the number of people that can be influenced by this and where the gospel can go. But another thing that’s really fascinating – and I’d love to hear your thoughts on is – those who have really been intentional in this movement about integrating their faith and influencing for Christ, we’ve seen a pattern of their performance going to another level. Just as we started this call Yare is sharing how today she’s receiving a major award in her company, you’re having new opportunities. What is it about integrating our faith and living as Christ in the workplace that actually is propelling people to new places of performance, even in their workplace.

Carrie Whitcher
I love that question, Jeff, and it really speaks to the limitless potential that Yare just commented on. As we are equipped as marketplace multipliers, we in turn, reap benefit of that in seeing those that we’ve been successful in influencing for Christ… there’s a confidence that comes with how we do that, and a desire to do more of it. And in different places. So for as much as I’m transitioning to a different role with a different employer, the thought of me now being able to spread this even further outside of my known hometown geography completely blows my mind again as to the influence again that we can have, and the confidence that I have been so privileged to experience, and recognizing the degree of influence that we each have. And you don’t have to be a leader to have that influence. You can be anywhere in your career or workplace and be able to influence others for Christ. We’re working beyond the walls of the church here, and no one is alone in this. We’re here to support one another. We’re here to encourage one another. Equip, of course, is a key word, but this is something that will have mass as we each recognize this ability that as Christians, we all have deep within our souls. And let’s go!

Jeff Clark
Paul, I’d love for you to comment on that, too, because I know you’ve been studying and teaching on this for years, and what nobody’s saying is, if we pray, we get better, like God just loves us more. But how do you see that connection where, as people more fully surrender their work to Christ and follow His ways, they become more effective in what they do. As you’ve consulted other leaders and seen that, what connection have you seen in that?

Paul Anthes
So Jeff, what I found… There was a point in time when I was living my life in compartments. I wasn’t letting my faith integrate with my work. So I’ve experienced both versions of that… a version where I was trying to be a Christ follower, but not fully implementing my faith at work, and now I’m on a journey of fully implementing my faith within everything I do at work. And there’s wisdom and guidance that we have when we do that. Suddenly, biblical principles help me make decisions day by day. They influence the relationships I have. How do I share grace and truth in a work setting? How do I show the fruits of the Spirit to those who work around me? How do I make wise decisions for the multitude of things I have to make decisions about? So my own decision making, my leadership of others, my relationships are all improved as I integrate my faith and use biblical wisdom for that. I don’t think people realize how good biblical wisdom is in the times in which we live. And then there’s a question I’ve heard that kind of, in a funny way, makes that point: Who’s more likely to screw up the one life that you have, you or God? And I think about that. I’ve got the God of the universe who wants to help me, if I’ll let him, or I can take it on my own. So I’ve made the decision, I’m more likely to screw up the one life I have, and I want to do things the way God wants me to do. And I think that provides huge benefits in our workplaces.

Jeff Clark
And I know those who are listening can go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com which Carrie said is now live, and they’ll find more information. Maybe it’s a marketplace person who wants to know how to launch a chapter in their local church. Maybe it’s somebody looking for the book with all three of these marketplace multipliers featured to hear more of their stories. To learn more about the Launch event on April 17, you can go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com now to find out more. And Yare, I want to finish with you. Final question: for those who are listening now, who are excited by this movement, how would you invite them to pray alongside what God is doing?

Yare Alicea
Yes, it’s a simple prayer. It’s asking the question for our Lord to open our heart, to be sensitive, to see how he sees, to hear what he wants us to hear, and just to walk with Him in the journey that he wants and he has designed for us.

Jeff Clark
And I think Paul’s saying, “Amen!”, because he’s saying, if you follow that journey, you’re way less likely to screw it up than if you’re following your own desires. So thank you all for joining today. Listeners can go to www.marketplacemultipliers.com to find out more information and be on the lookout for the April episode, which will have more information about the April 17 Launch event. See you next time!

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